Whatta Ya Think About Hsu Research Subwoofers?

big_greg:" Tim, they were rhetorical questions. As I mentioned, I use 4 subs in my main system. My point was that there are a few people that make pronouncements that may be "true" for them, but they may not be truisms for everyone - "you have to have four subs", "subs are for home theater", etc. What's "best" for one system, one's listening tastes, and their room may not be for someone else."

Hello big_greg,

     Okay, but I just reread your prior post and you sure did a poor job of making it clear your questions were rhetorical and what your point was. Odd, because you were able to clearly make your point in one sentence,  "  My point was that there are a few people that make pronouncements that may be "true" for them, but they may not be truisms for everyone", in your last post quoted above but failed to clearly do so in your entire prior post.
     Good, that clears up the issue of your point from your prior post that wasn't initially clear to me and I agree with your recently understood point.  Thank you.  
     But I'm hoping you could clear up another section of your prior post that I didn't fully understand or had questions about.  You stated:
" The best subwoofer integration I’ve heard to date was done with two subs. Compared to that system, I feel like my 4 subwoofer system is more of a band-aid than a best of class solution. Not that mine sounds bad, it’s very good, but there’s always more than one way to skin a cat."

     I have 2 questions/comments:

1.  Can you elaborate on the this best subwoofer integration you've heard to date that only consisted of 2 subs?  It's not that I don't believe you, it's more a matter of curiosity.

2,  I generally agree with you that there's always more than one way to skin a cat.  Apparently just like you. I'm also very interested and familiar with the various methods available for this hobby.  For example, I typically utilize very different methods depending on whether the cat is dead or alive.  Is this what you were referring to? Can you elaborate? 

Thanks,
  Tim

bob540:
" I just posted a grainy photo in my profile showing the space I am working with.  Sorry it is so dark and fuzzy.  The doors to the right are to my garage and laundry room, so cannot block those.  The table that holds my electronics is centered under the TV — Martin Logan towers are to each side of that, but hard to make out.  There is space to the left, as I can move the tower that holds my CDs and the record albums.  I wish I had Bluetooth capability for the subwoofers, as I could place one further to the right out of the line of foot traffic, and then I have space for one on the left.  I could cover the cable with a small throw rug I suppose."

Hello Bob,

     Sorry, I got sidetracked having a bit of fun.
     I looked at the picture of your room and system.  It's clear enough that I understand your issues with space and traffic patterns.  I can't see the rest of the room, but I believe you mentioned earlier that there's a large sectional couch along the opposite 14' short wall in your 14'x19'x8' room.  Please correct me if I'm incorrect.
     The first solution that comes to my mind is to switch ends for your tv/equipment and your couch.  The back of your couch would be positioned about 3' away from the door to your laundry room/garage door to allow for traffic.  Your tv and equipment would be positioned along the 14' short wall where your couch was.  This format would allow for your main speakers to be moved out a bit from the wall with the pair of subs along this wall behind them.
     I understand there may be obstacles with this solution so I'll wait for your response before offering another possible solution.

Tim

Tim,

I'm a fairly good writer, but understand that sometimes things like sarcasm, jokes, and also rhetoric aren't always easy to pick up on in a medium like this forum.  

The system I mentioned with two subwoofers belongs to a member of our local music club.  I don't recall all of the equipment in his system, or the exact models of his subs, but he had Harbeth Super HL5 Plus speakers (which I purchased for my system after hearing his) and one JL Audio and one Rel sub. 

I'm not sure I have the vocabulary to describe it, but the bass in his system was immediate, articulate, and powerful when bass notes were present, but not overwhelming.  He had a lot of room treatment (bass traps, diffusers, absorption panels, maybe more) and if I recall, his subs were placed in opposite corners of the room.  He mentioned that he had endlessly tweaked his system to achieve the bass performance we heard. 

There were about six or seven of us there and we all took turns sitting in different seats during our listening.  There was of course a "sweet spot" for the best imaging from the speakers, but the bass had no noticeable peaks or nulls in any of the spots where I sat.  It was a relatively small room (maybe 16 X 20 feet?), but it opened into another room on one side.  To my ears, it was one of the best, maybe even the best system that I've heard.  The clarity of the speakers, the soundstage, the imaging, the integration between the subs and the speakers were all sublime.  That's not to say it might not have even been better with another sub or two, but it was a really involving and dynamic listening experience with no apparent flaws that jumped out at me.

My room is bigger and has a few nooks and crannies and opens into my kitchen/dining room.  I have four subs - two Rythmik F25 subs and two SVS SB13 Ultra subs in my system.  It sounds great, and I don't notice any peaks or null spots and when I listen from my kitchen, there's no "boominess" or "one note bass", but it's not as dynamic as his system was.  My guess is that has more to do with the quality/power of his subs and the sound treatment in his listening space.  I've been adding room treatments and continue to experiment with placement of both the speakers and subs, sub settings, and other variables. 

I enjoy my system, but that system set a benchmark for me of what's possible.  That includes comparisons to a $100K system in a dealer showroom, and a number of other systems, both in treated showrooms at dealers and other friends who have high-end systems.  I appreciate and enjoy my system and have put it together on a relatively modest budget.  Employing four subs definitely took it to another level, using equipment I already had, but had only used for home theater in the past.

Hi Tim. The layout of my room is a bit different than you are thinking.  The other short wall is the one with the windows — my sectional is beneath those windows and then around the corner and takes up the wall that is to the left of my stereo (when facing the stereo.  The other long wall, to the right of the stereo (where you see the two doors) is taken up by the fireplace.  So, the only walls I could mount the TV on are where it is or on the long wall where the sectional is — but that latter placement would have my seating backed up to the fireplace.  I put my TV on the only wall that made sense to me, and then I put my stereo equipment where the TV is (and can play TV sound through the stereo equipment.  

While trying to decide how many subs I will get, I will also look into some of the other sub brands others mentioned here . . JL Audio, Rythmik, Rel, Audio Kenisis?   Never hurts to explore options.  

I currently own a pair of uls 15 mk2 paired to goldenear 5 channel system...the subs have fantastic sound quality. Tight and Digs deep for a sealed sub. For music, It can reach the lower midbass to give that kick drum some power too if wanted. You can tune the sub to your taste with the built in eq.  I'm a constant tweeker, but that's the one part of the system I dont feel the need to upgrade.