You are absolutely correct!
Audiogon standards state quite clearly: "When an item's condition is called "NEW", it must be a factory sealed box, and the seller should declare what if any warranty will be provided by the manufacturer. Some manufacturers will honor warranties only if purchased from an "authorized" dealer. Other manufacturers may offer warranty to the original owner only, even if that original owner never opened the box. Thus, any item rated as NEW should be accompanied by a warranty statement within the description of the listing. Otherwise, prospective buyers should ask the seller about the warranty - do not make any assumptions other than a factory sealed box. If an item has been opened for inspection or any other reason, it should NOT be rated "New"."
So apparently, some people just can't read! When I see an ad such as you've described, I disregard it and move on.
Oh, how wrong can you be? Now a days "new" is simply a contraction of "newish" or from the Latin, "newerish". It is related to such terms as "minty" and "near mint", meaning that the piece of gear next to it on the shelf is mint. Us LP collectors have been working through this lexicon for years, good luck.
You are exactly right. I don't open boxes to take pictures of items I sell, or open them for inspection. If it's out of the box, I don't ever consider it "new". It could still be a "10", but not new. I'm a pretty trusting guy, but, I simply don't believe those two explanations.
these are probably dealers working around limitations against selling new merchandise on the internet. Open the box, and there you go, it's not really "new."
If the box isn't open how do you know what's inside?
I think Swanny has it right for many of the items like this. In past jobs I've managed dealer networks, and one of the ways that dealers got around my MAP (minimum advertised pricing) was selling new equipment as "open box". I've also bought a PS Audio PowerPlant from a dealer via Audiogon that was clearly sold this way.
On the other hand, I'm sure that there are those who have bought equipment, hated it, and tried to dump it as "new" after a few weeks or months.... as always, Caveat Emptor.
Then 'like new' but something is broken. So it is 'like new' except one of the front panel buttons does not work.
(Same thing an LP with a really deep gouge is near mint, since 99% of it is just like new. only the spot with the deep gouge is bad..)
I bought once "Brand New in a Box" GPS on Ebay. Box was torn in many places and scotch-taped. Receiver was dead. Seller told me that it is in fact new and it is in the box. He never claimed that it works (he has no way of knowing) or that box is new. I left him bad feedback.
As someone who has sold, and tried to sell, brand new items I will argue that you are damned either way. If you list an item with a picture of a sealed box, buyers are going to insist on seeing a picture of the actual item. And if you open the box to shoot a picture of the unit, you get a reaction like that from the OP decrying the defilement of the virginal object.
As a buyer, I don't mind if an item is opened as long as the item is actually as described. I think that a little trust between buyer and seller is in order. After all, isn't that what Audiogon (or eBay, or AA) feedback is for?
Are you kidding Br3098 ?? Anyone that will ask to get an actual pic is not gonna buy it.
It's like "truthiness".
Facts be damned, it's how you feel in your gut.
All the best,
I always wondered what the difference is between "new" and "brand new."
It could be the topic of a Seinfeld episode.
As oppposed to totally new etc. It trouble me when an item has been tried out by the original buyer who doesn't care for it and then reselling it as new. I wouldn't have an issue with "As New" but some people seem to need to push the linits. No matter how new it looks fells etc. when it's not it is not new period end of story. Thanks for letting me vent. The upside is that you already know the seller isn't completely honest and that it is best to stav away.
The mystery to me is why does anyone BUY stuff in advance of possible changes which fail.
Then the yare stuck with junk they can never use.
My suggestion is DO NOT BUY stuff you 'think' maybe you might want someday in the future.
No matter how great a deal it seems at the moment.
I always wondered what the difference is between " new" and "brand new"
In the movie "Defending Your LIfe" with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep, Als character is chatting with someone else who has passed on, awaiting the decision to go the next level of life, and asks what he did for a living.
The guy replied, "You know those strip joints out by the airport? The ones that state "Nude Girls"? Well business was down until I put up "Live" before "Nude Girls". Then the customers started coming in.
All the best,
If box is opened its not new. It will have to be sold as a demo.
Swanny may be right. I have a friend who bought one of these NEW with an opened box items and received a NEW item in a sealed box. I think the dealers are doing this to move inventory at a discount without having their dealship pulled.
My suggestion is to redefine the Audiogon rating system. A 10 rating should be unopened in the original packaging. 9 should be like new but opened for photos, testing, etc.