Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

This might be surprising, but don't look at it a foolish...until you check what I say,

Some years ago I discovered a "cult" preamp-amplifer from a mass consumer mid-fi maker from 1960's, Stromberg-Carlson.  I have restored three of these through 2007 -2013 in my restoration work for Audio Classics, or two privately (for my son).
The device is the Stromberg-Carlson ASR-433, an integrated preamp-amplifier with 6BQ5's, a whopping 10-12-watts or so per channel.

When done, listening through my Joseph Pearls !!! the sound was astonishing, good, and all owners were happy with this unit in a "second" system for casual listening. The usual recapping, etc, but no modifications.
Worth checking.  There is a bigger model using 5881 or 6L6 output tubes but I have never seen it. There is of course, other vintage tube stuff around for anyone brave (or crazy) enough to experiment and have fun...

My own system (all my design) is tube, a 50-watt/channel triode amplifier with MAC output transformers built in 1989, a two-box tube preamp (1991) , and a TUBE MR78 tuner in 1995 (for the MR71 tube sound). Drives a set of Josrph Pearls (my design also! in 1999)

RIMO

Well, it’s been a while since I looked at this thread. And internet fora are nothing if there aren’t Divergent opinions expressed, right? Having said that, I will recommend that with respect to your power amp question you seek out a white paper which is on the Sanders sound systems website on transistors versus tubes or solid state versus tubes. IMHO this will help you understand some of the important differences between tube and solid state power amps.

The next point I want to share (and its just my opinion) is that a good tube preamp can make an ENORMOUS difference in the sound of a system. IMHO it is better than not using a preamp, or only using a passive volume control. I don’t have a technical basis for this opinion but I can tell you that I’m not the only one who has this opinion.

Personally, I am very much in favor of the small artisan, designer/Builder such as the the Haviland, or the don sacks, or the supratek. You’re just paying for the parts and skilled labor to design and build the equipment. You’re not paying for staff meetings, fancy buildings, inventory control systems, email systems, accounting departments, shipping departments, management salaries, marketing, Etc. I have nothing against the larger companies, but I have worked for big companies and I know that all that money for all those salaries has to come from somewhere.

You asked about why point-to-point wiring is important. I don’t think I can really answer that. I did enjoy Kevin Deal’s video on YouTube in which he raves it up. I have read what Mike Maloney has to stay on the Supratek website and he basically says that point-to-point wiring simply sounds better. That he’s tried to make preamps with printed circuit boards but they just sound boring, Flat, plastic and two dimensional By comparison. I know that all the people that use point-to-point wiring are hardcore, hard-headed, Fanatics. That’s the kind of person that I want to do business with. That’s the kind of person I want building my s***.

One other point I want to make is that you're really not in that unique of a position with respect to finding it hard to audition some of this equipment. At least in my experience the very best equipment is hard to find. It's not mass Market. Yeah there's stuff out there that you can find but you're going to get a lot more for your money if you go to those individual Artisan builders. In my experience and from everything I've read that's where the juice is.

Thanks, Markus. I started reading that white paper and it's great. Aimed toward people with electrostatic gear, but I see the principles are general and that will be very useful. Appreciate that.

Glad to hear your view on tube preamps. I've been whipsawed back and forth on this, with some agreeing and others saying, in effect, "If it ain't tubes all the way through, you won't get the effect you're really seeking." I honestly need to listen to hear the proof, but until then, I'm not clear.

I agree about the small builder thought. Quicksilver is such a builder and that's who I'm auditioning tomorrow. Through a dealer, yes, but not a big company.

And you're right about my position not being unique; it may be like a lot of other things we buy — we take a chance. It's just that the money involved is in the 4 figures at least and may be hard to recoup or re-sell. But as many pointed out, it can be hard to find that Ultraverve or whatever. People know them and want them. And tube rolling does a lot (so I hear).

Thanks for taking the time to check back in an add to the advice. I added your comments to some notes I'm keeping.

hilde45,

Good for you for taking notes with some patience. It will pay off to listen to different combinations and take your time comparing. Looking at the dealer and list of gear they offer, will be very educational for you.  

Yes, sure, you can do the hybrid approach with a tube preamp and solid state amplifier, in most cases you’ll still hear a TWO dimensional sound stage. It can sound really smooth, musical, but not 3D.

Remove the <average> solid state amp (within your budget), and replace it with an appropriately matched tube amplifier (within your budget) to your speakers and you’ll hear a THREE dimensional sound stage - then it will click. It’s like reading about what car to buy, nobody really knows until they go and test drive them and compare. Listen closely, pun intended :)