Higher End DACs


I am looking for a DAC (potentially streamer&DAC) to be paired in a mcintosh system (c1100/611). Its my first foray into digital streaming and I have no need for a CD player.

I see a lot of love for Esoteric, however, most seems to be around their transports? Are they not as renowned for pure digital streaming and/or standalone DACs? I see DCS (for instance) often referenced for standalone DACs - how does Esoteric compare?
ufguy73
Looking at what measurements I can find on the Bartok and Rossini I would be surprised if there would be very many people over 10 year olds who could tell a difference if they were blindfolded. I know I couldn't even sighted with my 63 year old ears. 
4425 we loved your statement,  wiw i searched for all reviews of the bartok and can’t remember a product receiving such universal praise. i’m getting one for sure.

Please look at the Lumin X1 which has received more rave reviews than almost any digital product in its price point, in general the Lumin products are usually rated as the go to product for their price point. 

As well as one of the forum posts that the reviewer dramatically prefered the X1 over the Bartok.

We are not saying that the Bartok isn't an excellent product it is but the Lumin is a choice that suits many people very well from a company that was considered the first major streaming dac in the industry.

As per your comment that the Bartok will be hard to tell the difference between the more expensive  DCS setups again not going to be true.

When a company any company builds a more expensive product you can beat your socks that it will dramatically outperform the lesser one, and specs don't tell this.

Georgehifi, we send out any digital product that a potential client would want to audition at no cost other than the shipping costs and of course the prospective client must pay in full for it. MSB is assisting their dealers who many of them are not going to be able to demo many of their line due to their very high cost for their top of the line fully optioned models.

The fact that Robert Harly who has heard every major digital front end has stated the The T+A SD 3100 is his new benchmark should say a lot. 

As we mentioned before just because a product is heinously expensive doesnt' mean that it will perform better than a lesser one.

In the case of T+A there is no digital company in the world right now that has applied such advanced technology to their dacs, that is not DCS or Esoteric nor Emm Labs. 

The ability to natively process DSD 1024 means you have to have a very high speed data throughput, it took a grant from the German goverment to enable the research to lead to this products creation. 

Native DSD 1024 means that the dac can receive an extrmely high data rate from the way the data enters the dac to the point that is is read.

Other dacs process a DSD 512 data stream and then reprocess that, which is not the same thing as being able to read and process twice the data rate at twice the speed initially, which requires much greater engineering to develop your own input receiver, chips and software and a data buss than can move data at that high a speed.

If you want the most advanced digital product in the market currently the T+A is the one to beat. 

4425 we have compared the Lumin to the T+A and the T+A is better the price difference is $20k so yes it should be the point being made is that there are fantastic digital products for the money that come very close to the best and there are others that are the best if you have a good enough system, the hearing acuity, and the money you can get results that are indeed better, in audio as with anything else is that price difference worth it to the prosepective client?

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Lumin, and T+A dealers


@audiotroy

I don’t mean this as argumentative as it may come across...

you said: "If you want the most advanced digital product in the market currently the T+A is the one to beat."

and yet it doesn’t have MQA ability - again, I am sure many would argue that the SQ, intent/purpose, principle of MQA is debatable.

the reality is, however, that there is a material amount of content out there in that form and a meaningful number of DAC companies that are supporting the format in their devices.

How can any supporter claim a component is the most ’advanced’ and not support a format that many other lesser, similarly, and higher priced devices do support?

Again, interested to hear your thoughts on how you reconcile that issue...I do find the T+A intriguing - but it is at a fairly high price point and if its differentiator is its advanced capabilities this omission seems to directly undercut at least part of its core value proposition?

also, in regard to your final paragraph...I think at least part of the discussion has shifted to the synergy/match of these DACs in my own system - and so I would be curious to know if the T+A is not just 'better' on paper and/or in a top of the line system....but whether its 'better' in context of my system components/speakers.
E-mail from T+A last week:

thank you for your feedback! I'm pleased that you are very satisfied with your SDV3100HV!

There are plans to support the audio format MQA in the long term. But if or when we will be able to realize an update for SDV3100HV, I cannot answer you.

I wish you much joy with your SDV3100HV!

All the best!


T+A elektroakustik GmbH & Co. KG
Bernd Mölling
Planckstr. 9-11
DE 32052 Herford
audiotroy...i laud you as a very informed dealer. i really do. i also have no reason to question what you say. in the end the customer decides after learning and hearing the product. it is my hope that you don’t demean customers that don’t come to the same conclusion. it happens a lot but is a poor method of selling products. the most enjoyable job i ever had was selling SAE (when it worked) and JBL when i was in college a long time ago.
on another topic i find RH to not be credible. how many times has he cited a new ‘reference’? Of course it’s not just him. On a short list of honest reviewers I kind of like mike fremer. he seems straight.
i have zero at stake in the dac sweepstakes. i just think the bartok should be on everyone’s list to consider given its price vs the uber gear cost. i’ve never heard a bartok and it wouldn’t matter as one has to listen in home to know what it really sounds like. i know the rossini well and do expect that the bartok is in the ballpark which would be a very good thing.