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So What Is Real?

There is a newsletter I subscribe to because the guy seems to talk about reality and not what some sales dude wants to sell you. [email protected]   Now the funny thing to me is that all these cable specialists of high dollar remedies for flawed playback are somehow going to magically change what you hear and will then rise above the abilities of the music file limitations and recording engineers. A dumb wire that is used to create the hi-res recordings so sought after is not somehow suitable for the playback of the same. The following is from Waldreps newsletter and I fully agree. I love this guy and he is a light shining through all the smoke and mirror BS of high end audio. I confess I too am a cable denier and incapable of hearing " further uptick in micro-dynamic jump " but love the delicious word salad these guys create to try to describe something that is not there. I can see the cable guy sitting there with his buddy. Wow did you hear that uptick in micro-dynamics!!  You just know that's how he would talk, right?
  As an aside here how does one become a professional listener? What is the criteria for attaining this lofty goal? How do you know when you have arrived and what governing authority sets down the requirements for such a thing so you know  you are not deceiving yourself and others? Is it a nebulous category that is assigned to you when you spend a certain level of money or do you have verifiable and provable abilities above the norm as recognized by a large group of people including recording industry engineers, professional sound installers and high end audio system owners? In other words anyone but cable sellers?

  The following is from "Dr. AIX Post for January 25, 2020"

 " Cable Nonsense

What is it that Art Linkletter used to say? Kids say the darndest things. Well, it seems some FB audio group administrators, audiophiles, high-end audio salespersons, audiophile society officials, and manufacturers also say things that make little or no sense when talking or posting about cables.

I usually steer clear of FB posts or online magazines that promote high-end audio cables. It's just never safe to present with science, established electrical engineering theory and practice, or objectiveness when cables are concerned. A recent exchange on a familiar FB audio group page resulted in a member calling me a "cable denier" because I advocated for science and physics in evaluating power cords.

The thread basically dismissed my comments because I'm a member of the professional audio engineering community. Audio equipment salespeople, FB administrators, high-end audio marketing managers, and the general audio buying public are claimed to be better and more reliable sources of information when it comes to recommending expensive accessories and cables. According to the gentleman below, they are capable of listening in ways that audio professionals can not.

One commenter wrote:

"Mark is a pro and speaks just like one, but he is not a professional LISTENER, like you (Writer's NOTE: the guy offering the ultra expensive power cords), I and so many others in the high-end industry. Interesting is that most so-called experts are also naysayers who work in the recording industry, not in the high-end industry."

What does this statement actually claim? That professional audio engineers and producers do not know how to listen? That spending one's professional life in front of speakers in a control room doesn't require listening?Maybe...just maybe...the engineers responsible for producing the recordings that are played back in these guys high-end systems are correct in their assessment of power cords and expensive USB/Ethernet cables. Image that!

Can you really trust a gentlemen that just launched a new cable company that offers a 6-foot power cord for $3150? Oh and this person also believes that cables are directional! BTW They are not.

Here's a couple of additional comments...

"Cables can make a difference. I’m glad I can hear those differences it truly enhances the experience. I have been a dedicated audiophile and in the industry for over 45 years and have been able to identify those differences since my first experience with Smog Lifters in the 70’s. I search for and usually discover great products that deserve special attention by people looking for the last bit of resolution and coherency. I’m truly sorry for those that wouldn’t hear the difference."

Here's a comment from an individual that swapped a normal Ethernet cable for an expensive one.

"...the Vodka seemed to remove a layer of film for superior textural reveal. There was also a shade more tonal depth and recording space ‘air’. Most noticeable of all was a further uptick in micro-dynamic jump."

I don't know about you but I cringe when I hear people talk about audio in such terms. And this after listening to a commercial album and then stopping, swapping the cable and relistening. It's unbelievable.

I could pull quotes from cable reviews all afternoon but I think you get the point. When anyone starts spewing nonsense about power cords, digital interconnects, or network cables, run away. Keep your wallet in your pocket and unsubscribe from that group or online magazine. Their motivations are suspect. They either want to sell you something (usually at very high cost) or are dependent on advertising dollars from the companies they write about or the individuals they interview.

"
mahlman
roberjerman
4,319 posts
 
I too buy wire/cables by how they look and feel! Just like jewelry! Audio jewelry! 
wolf_garcia
6,591 posts
 
I'm an actual "professional listener" as I'm seriously overpaid to mix live concerts (snakes...live 100 plus foot snakes), and note that my opinions about wire are Real Important...I say buy whatever sounds best to you. I use AQ speaker cable and Morrow and AQ ICs because they work and without them it would be very quiet around here. I'm very proud of an AQ solid silver sp/dif digital cable I bought used for peanuts. Plus, I talked to Bill Low once and I feel if I didn't use some of his stuff he'd get upset, although I've used AQ wires of various types for around 30 years or something...back when most things were STRANDED. To sum up: Don't be stranded.
taras22
412 posts
 
I suspect the former had more to do with improvement over the latter....just saying....

Quite likely the case. Like in the examples I heard I never heard those changes as separate changes just heard the gross before and after. That being said the original cross-over parts, which I did see, were pretty low grade so almost "quality" part would have been an improvement.

"And here we have a cable, which is, in effect,  a capacitor, and having a better made one can't bring out more in the original recording like a better amp or source can? "

That being said capacitor types do have different sonic signatures that most experienced listeners can, or should be able to hear. After-all most can detect amp differences and caps play a significant part in their sonic differences. And yeah wires have capacitive effect but its a bit more complex than just that. 

From what I've been led to believe. a capacitor can act as a simple crossover in a 2 way unit....perhaps in the 'better' cables, this capacitance is minimized, But....isn't this still like a very primitive bit of eq?


Might be more correct to say that negative parts of the capacitance effect are minimized just as higher grade caps have less of a negative impact. Bandwidth related issues being one example.
amg56's avatar
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amg56
887 posts
 
I am so disappointed that this forum, and in fact much of the posted subject matter in the forums are so bad. I originally came to this forum to commune and learn from the people who know about the subjects who we, want to learn about and from those we expected to learn from. I am very disappointed the see that this forum (and of all subjects) are full of vitriol, sarcasm, commentary that is so off subject, and the ever destructive trolls big noting themselves  that the conversation and subject matter becomes irrelevant.
To those who what to learn, I am sorry for you that the knowledgeable persons are shut down by ignorant big noters, and those that want to learn are shut out by big nobodies.

I hope that this forum can return to one that exhibits those with (teaching) knowledge such that the newbies and those without audio knowledge are able to learn of this wide and wonderful subject.

I hope that the trolls stay away so we can learn without bad influences.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But where the subject is learning, can the trolls stay away so "we" can learn and gain some knowledge without being trampled on.


I actually have a lot of respect for this forum, however if the sarcasm, bitterness between poster's, and those persons who consciously sabotage the posts which want to learn.

I hope those with trivial comments leave, so we who are serious can learn.
barkeyzee1
41 posts
 
I was a non-believer that cables make a difference until I witnessed it on my own system. I had bought a new interconnect cable thinking it would be an upgrade over what I already had, I was shocked at the difference in sounds / loss of brightness and extended low end that had been there before...  I quickly went back to my original $30 interconnect cable.

Like some of  the comments here have suggested, use what sounds good to YOU!
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