Subwoofers and Phase Question For You Sub Experts


I use a pair of Dunlavy SC-3 speakers, known for their time/phase coherent crossover design.

When the stars align the speakers completely disappear and there’s a sense of space and 3 dimensionality that I’ve heard from few other speakers/systems. It’s easy to destroy the illusion with things like poor placement, poor setup of room treatments, etc.

Adding subs to the setup is both a blessing and a curse. The Dunlavy’s need some support in the nether regions and a pair of HSU subs do add a solid foundation to music which enhances the overall presentation; however, it’s at the expense of some stage depth, width and image dimensionality. Placing the subs a few inches forward of the front plane of the speakers helps a little but that isn’t where they perform at their best as ‘subwoofers’.
Finding optimal room positions for bass augmentation always creates a clash with the phase aspect of integration resulting in the diminished soundstage described above.
Playing with phase settings has little impact on the problem since there’s just a toggle for 0 and 180.

Which brings me to the questions - 
1/ How does running a swarm setup, with 4 subs, affect phase/time integration with the mains? Does it create twice or half the issue or remove it altogether?

2/ Looking at subs such as the JL Audio F series with auto room calibration, does the EQ algorithm compensate for any time/phase anomaly or is it simply looking for a more linear bass response?

I don’t mind investing in more sophisticated subs so long as I don’t end up with the same problem. I’m not really inclined to mess with software and the like, unless there’s no other way.

Thanks

Rooze


128x128rooze
 There is no such thing as swarm. Its just a bunch of subwoofers rather than a single subwoofer. 


Thanks guys ^^
Erik’s first post got me interested in the miniDSP, which I’ve heard of many times but never really followed up with any research.
 I’m not sure it would be a fit for my system, though it sure as heck sounds tempting. I do a fair amount of equipment reviewing so need to be able to evaluate various DACs, preamps etc and I think the DSP would be a variable that wouldn’t sit well in a reviewing environment. One question I had on the miniDSP is - can it be setup via a tape loop on an existing preamp so it’s affect can be switched in and out?
I ran a Lyngdorf TDAi with room perfect a few years ago and it worked well, but again, for reviewing it’s not an ideal tool.

Agreed on the REL subs, whenever I’ve heard them over the years they’ve always seemed well integrated.
I’m still not certain that my main concern of managing phase would be resolved with a REL unless it’s one with 360 degree phase control and I find the patience to set it up manually (times two).
An auto solution would be awesome. 
Thanks again.
oh... for gear I have stuff coming in and out but my ‘static’ rig is heavily vinyl and tube:
Music Hall MMF-11 soon to be replaced with a new Origin Live setup
Manley Chinook / Zesto Audio Andros
Thor Audio tubed Pre and Power 
Aurender N100H
Sim Audio Moon 380D DAC
other odds and ends

Hey Rooze,

If you use your subwoofer in a review environment, you should use miniDSP.  What I'd suggest is you do it for the subwoofer alone.  This lets you leave every other part of your chain undisturbed.

Best,

E
Um, what you haven't convinced me of, at all, is that your problem is "phase" related.
It's the entire integration of the subwoofer to speaker and room. That's what you are describing.

Adding a mini DSP correctly will allow you to perfectly blend in the sub to your speakers (yes, including phase) as well as blend it to your room. Better with bass traps that can help drain the energy out of persistent room modes, but still effective without.