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Dazed & Confused

Listening to mostly jazz, solo instruments and vocals I find my Martin Logan Spire hybrids to sound awesome, but recently I was listening to some both "Busy" 90’s rock and classical (lots of instruments playing loudly together) and I find the music starts to sound garbled and annoying (to bright), so much so, I turn it off.
I was wondering if you all might have some suggestions on some speakers that would be a little more forgiving with busy/loud music that I could possibly switch over to when listening to different types of music. That is unless I can find speakers that can handle all styles of music, then I would consider taking the hit ($$$) on selling the Spires.

Without getting into room size and dynamics, lets just call it a standard room, I was also looking for something more efficient. The Spires need a huge amount of power (and volume) to sound good. Looking more for something I can listen to loud but also still enjoy the music at a much lower volume if that’s at all possible. Neutral and not to bright.
Living in the sticks, I can’t just jump in the car to go demo speakers. Only once, in the past, did I purchase a set of speakers online and unheard, going solely on the sales person’s recommendations. I learned the hard way to never do that again!

Equipment now: Coda CSiB integrated amp with W4S 2v2 SE Dac running Roon Nucleus.

I also wanted to mention that the Spires have phenomenal base, so much so I sold the 2 subs I was originally using with them. Floor standers and bookshelfs have come along way in SQ these days, but if I need to purchase another set of subs the budget is starting to dwindle.

No vinyl or CD’s, just Tidal.

$3,000 - $5000 budget, new or newer demos.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice you may have to offer!
Paul
high-amp
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Looking at the photos linked to above, and also at the photo in your system description thread which shows the speakers, my suspicion is that the major contributors to the problem are:

1) The listening chairs are too far off center, assuming you don’t relocate them when listening.
2) The speakers are too close together. It appears that there is not much more than five feet between them, while the listening distance is significantly greater than that.

I would expect that moving the speakers further apart and listening from a centered position would result in much better separation of multiple instruments and much less of the garbling you referred to.

Regards,
-- Al

tuberist's avatar
tuberist
951 posts
 
Almarg, I agree with your assessment plus a lot of very hard surfaces there. I set my SL3 Martin Logans about 9 feet apart and toed slightly inward. the OP’s gear is top notice and I suspect it’s the room’s sonic character or once again, the recordings that are causing the "brightness and congestion" at higher volumes. One thing about ML's I experienced. They are fairly beamy with a very small but focused sweet spot and aren't so great for off center listening. Of course the newest models may not have the beamy issue anymore but I don't know.
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,201 posts
 
High-amp, I looked at your room. The problem with ML's is that curved diaphragm. As the diaphragm moves forward it tightens. As it moves back it gets loose. In other words it is not linear. The harder you push it the more it distorts and you have the power to push it well past linearity. 
You also have enough power to drive just about anything. 
The two speakers that come to mind are the Sound Labs 545 and the Magneplanar 3.7i. Remembering that you listen mostly to jazz and voice.
Both these speakers alone are admittedly not real rockers. If you want to blow your doors off and are not as sound quality critical Klipsch Cornwall 4's would do fine but they would also look sort of boring in your room.
If you wanted to blow your doors off and remain at a high level of sound quality you would put at least two good subwoofers under the Sound Labs which will give you another 10 dB. Adding subs to the Maggies does not add much in term of output. The other nice part about the Sound Labs is that they are indestructible. The Maggie tweeter is the absolute best on the market but it is a bit fragile. Maggie has a great tweeter replacement program. If you know how to use a screw driver you can have a new tweeter in in three days. Music won't blow them but stuff like lightening and needle drops might. Other than the tweeter Maggies are indestructible. If you really like ESL clarity and detail the Sound Labs are for you.
high-amp OP
508 posts
 
These ML's were originally purchase for another home and sounded just fine. That home was remodeled around the speakers. That remodel was all about hard surfaces, which unlike most speakers the ML's are very adaptable too and sounded very good (yes, they were further apart)

The location of the Spires in the present home is far from perfect but, for now, it is what it is. I wasn't really looking to make them sound better (maybe in the next house?) I was thinking to augment them with something that would sound better in this particular situation. From what I have read not all speakers do all things. ML's are great for clarity in the mids and are unforgiving (regardless of placement) with poor quality recordings (as tuberisit previously mentioned). Looking for either something to get me by (and sounds good with R&R)with a  little more efficiency so as not to play them so loud. Or something to completely replace the ML's that will satisfy all the requirements. Something more unforgiven to room placement at this residence and any future digs. 

& BTW, the chairs in the photo are for watching TV. When I want to listen to music I have my Ikea Poang chair to plop down in the middle of the vise. 


Thanks for your comments!
high-amp OP
508 posts
 
Thanks mijostyn, 

The SL 545's look great, but even if I sold my speakers they are way over my budget.
And both the SL's and the Maggies are a little "Majestic" as suggested. 

~P
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