Upgrading sub to get a live feel.

mcreyn:
"We do have a pretty good idea on the OP’s preference for bass levels, he has a pair of SB1000s and is not satisfied. To get a significant feeling of increased volume, he needs to pick up 10db. Adding two more SB1000s will only net him about 6db (again, because we are not co-locating). The PB-1000 a little more. Two Seaton Submerssive HPs are capable of 115+ db at 20hz without room gain. By 30 hz, we are well over 120db. We do know this will keep up with his current speakers as well as his future speakers."

Hello mcreyn,

You stated " To get a significant feeling of increased volume, he needs to pick up 10db. Adding two more SB1000s will only net him about 6db (again, because we are not co-locating). The PB-1000 a little more."

      If 4db more volume gain could be attained by using two additional PB-1000 subs rather than the net 6db more using two additional SB-1000 subs, wouldn’t that provide the net 10db increase in bass volume to perceive a significant feeling of increased volume?
     Without specifically knowing or measuring, I’d suggest we can’t know with any certainty and it’s best to just wait and let the OP decide based on his perception of the bass. Do you agree?

     Also, I don’t believe it’s reasonable to assume the OP wants to listen to music or HT with deep bass at a 115 db volume level. Doctors claim exposure to 115 db sound levels for more than 30 seconds can cause permanent hearing loss. I’m just stating the OP needs to verify he listens regularly for extended periods at this high of a volume level.


Thanks,
  Tim

Tim,

He currently is peaking at about 100 db at low frequencies.  A general rule for each identical sub added that is not colocated is 3db, so 6db total.  Adding the PBs 1000 may give more than a 6db gain, but as pointed out by others, with different phasing, there could also be cancelation (keep in mind the phase shift (group delay) is entirely different for sealed v vented subs).  Here we have a limited ability to compensate for this, unlike the home theater guys that adjust all their phasing and eq in the digital domain.  

This brings us back to if the OP is going to do a swarm, he should use 4 identical subs.  This limits us to the 4 SB 1000 and about 106 db.  Also most people run their subs 4-6 db hotter than their mains.  He feels the current pair are not enough, 6db more is not a substantial change.  We aren’t even getting into the discussion of the high distortion levels that occur when pushing subs to their limit.  

This is why I came back to the pair of Seatons.  He gets the smoothed response at his listening position, but the output capability to not run out of steam.  

Tim,

I forgot to mention, you can’t respond.  That way I get the last word and the OP doesn’t abandon the thread (assuming he hasn’t run for the hills already).   

Cary

:)

If the OP has the budget, bigger is better. It's a good thing to have headroom. Again though, I would suggest that we let him try out the subs he has already ordered (and can return) and see what he thinks for himself. 

Hello mcreyn,

       Between you arguing for the ability for mega-bass at arena rock volume levels in his living room and me arguing for very high quality bass at less masochistic volume levels, I believe thewatcher101 will understand his options and decide for himself.  
     To be fair, I wanted to point out that running subs well within their limits is definitely beneficial, mainly lower distortion, a sense of ease to the bass and ample power reserves  for powerful bass dynamics.  
     For balance, I wanted to also point out that my Swarm system, with four 4 ohm passive (not self amplified) subs each consisting of a single 10" long-throw driver in a 1'x1'x28" cabinet that are all driven by a single 1K watt class AB amp connected in a series-parallel configuration, operates well within its limits, provides low distortion bass with a sense of ease and ample power reserves for powerful dynamics with the volume control set at the 11:00 o'clock position, a bit less than halfway.  In the four years I've used the Swarm, I've honestly never perceived the bass as being not loud or powerful enough on either music or H T. I perceive the bass output as consistently high quality, powerful, dynamic, with not only a sense of ease and naturalness but also a sense of unlimited capacity no matter what volume level is chosen on the Oppo's remote. 
     I could be wrong, but I currently believe a 4-sub DBA consisting of a pair of PB-1000 and a pair of SB-1000 self amplified subs is likely capable of performing just as well, provided the OP wasn't referring to hearing loss inducing volume levels when he mentioned "upgrading sub to get a live feel". 
     You are now welcome to the last word as we await watcher's verdict.