What differences should I be hearing as my new system breaks in?


I recently upgraded and replaced my entire stereo system. I have been using the new components a few weeks now, maybe two or more hours per day. I’ve been reading here the components have various burn in times. My question is, what differences or improvements should you expect to hear as the system breaks in over time. All the components were purchased brand new except the power conditioner. I understand different components take longer to burn in than others. From what I’ve read, on the low end, the cartridge should take maybe twenty or so hours to break in. On the high end the speakers might need up to three or four hundred hours.

My new system consists of a pair of Magico A3 speakers, a Luxman L-507uX MkII integrated amplifier, a VPI Classic 2 SE turntable with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge, and a Marantz SA 8005 CD player (which I have had for a few years). I also acquired a Shunyata Hydra Denali 6000/S power conditioner, used, which everything is plugged into. Wiring consists of Audioquest Rocket 88’s to the speakers, VPI’s house brand cable from the turntable to the amp, and an Audioquest Colorado cable fom the CD player to the amp. The Shunyata Hydra Denali uses a Shunyata Venom power cord to the wall outlet.

It’s been interesting so far. Thus far some records or CD’s sound very different form what I’ve been used to listening to over the years. I had my old Dahlquist DQ-10’s, Bang and Olufsen Beogram 4002 turntable and Phase Linear 400/4000 amp/preamp combination since the late seventies.

Some sparsely orchestrated Joni Mitchell sounded wonderful and beautifully articulated. Art Blakey’s Jazz Messengers with Wayne Shorter, playing as I write, really shows off Mr. Shorter’s sax playing in full bodied way I’d not heard before. I really enjoyed Shostakovichs 5th symphony, where I’ve usually not been able to warm up to classical music. Stuff I’ve heard a million times before and was a little bored with has come alive for some reason. The Grateful Dead’s "Wake of the Storm" sounded inexplicably different and better for some reason. Bill Wyman’s bass intro into on the Stone’s "Live With Me" off Let It Bleed was a revelation. I’d never heard it before like that, although I’ve listened to Let It Bleed hundreds of times as the daily played soundtrack of my senior year in high school. Oddly, Let It Bleed sounded poor, particularly Mick’s vocals, at the speakers demo, to which I had taken it. Go figure.

On the other hand Pink Floyd’s Dark Side of the Moon on Mobile Fidelity sounded like a muddy mess and super crackly to boot, although an almost brand new pressing. Next up is a record cleaning machine to see if that makes any difference with well cared for records like the Pink Floyd recording. Paul Desmond’s alto sax practically jumped out of the speakers on the Brubeck’s Take Five album, which had previously left me non-plussed, but now was quite enjoyable. I’ll have to try a little more West Coast jazz. I’ll stop rambling right now.

Anyway, I’m curious how much better things may get and what may change, as the system gets burned in properly. I’d appreciate any input about what to expect from those of you who have some experience in this area. There’s been mostly nice surprises so far. Thanks,

Mike
skyscraper
I also replaced entire stereo system 2-3 months ago, and while I can't really cognitively notice the burn-in changes over that time, I have been amazed by the audible changes that even very minute speaker and sub placement/angling differences can make. 

I'm talking 1-2 inches of speaker movement closer or further from back and side walls, or angling in or out of a couple degrees, where the nominal distances from back wall are about 22", side wall 30-35", spaced from each other about 10-11' and each from listening position about 12-13'.  So positioning changes of just one or two percent can make amazing differences in bass fullness and tightness and high end smoothness.  Then there's sub filter freq and output volume not to mention streamer upconvert and filter settings ... endless testing opportunities ...

Happy listening!
Right. What I thought. Everything so messed up you couldn't hear even if you knew what to listen for. But the good news, you are listening! I'm harsh but fair. For what you have noticed, good. Keep listening.

Okay so now here's the thing. The inches you find so amazing, in terms of where you want to be, might as well be miles. Inches are fine in terms of adjusting what you're hearing so far, gross frequency response. Reason I say gross, its gross. So gross you can hear it easily with any stereo. You can hear it with your laptop. Play anything with the laptop sitting on a table. Now lift it up. Hear the difference? That's bass reinforcement from the wide flat table top. Same exact thing happening with your speakers relative to the floor and walls.

The changes that happen with burn-in are much less obvious yet still easily heard. It helps a lot to know what to listen for. And to have speakers accurately placed not just plopped down like they are now.

Because where you want to be is measured in millimeters, and I mean only one or two, or fractions of an inch, and I mean like 1/8.

Get a tape measure and square. Tweak the speakers to be the same distance from your sweet spot and angled in so they are exactly symmetrical. You find inches amazing, wait till you hear the difference a few degrees of toe in has on imaging when your speakers are precisely aligned like this!

Now what to listen for in terms of burn-in. Warm-up. Whatever. Same thing. Different only in terms of time frame. Let me explain.

Take anything cold, new or used, wire or component, does not matter. Start using it cold, when it hasn't been used in a while, it will not sound anywhere near as good at first as it will later on. The difference between brand new and used but not recently is the same in terms of character but different mainly in terms of how big the difference and how long the time to get to stable and good. A system or component used all the time but not since last night will probably be back to great in an hour or so. A system or component brand new will probably be more like a couple hundred hours or so.

Got it? This is not one and done. This is always and ongoing. 

Now sorry for blowing you off earlier but you know there's a lot of goofballs and trolls around here, the place is full of them, and you could easily have been just one more. Only saying you have been moving things around and listening changed my mind. So here's what to listen for and how to learn to hear it.

The hard part about this is you're trying to hear something that develops very gradually over a long period of time. The one time it happens fast is right at the very beginning. When you know what you're doing you'll be able to hear changes happening in real time as the minutes go by. Later on its more like you will notice one day it sounds a whole lot better than it did last week. This happened to me just last night. "New" as in recently modded Active Shielding MPC. Only thing new in them is the diodes and caps ala Michael Spallone. Everything in my system thoroughly burned in. Only 9 diodes and two caps were new. Monster changes as those few parts burned in!

The sound initially, and yes I'm still talking about this but its the same for everything, it has the overall character but its like a sketch or drawing yet to be painted. The sound has a grain to it. Leading edges exaggerated, harmonic development sketchy. Instruments are localized as in there is width and depth, but this also is kind of sketchy as if not quite really there. There is an impression of detail, but then you realize this is mostly because of the exaggerated leading transients. In fact there's a tremendous amount of detail being hidden or glossed over.

(Learn to recognize this, its the main thing responsible for "hi-fi" sound and its killing a lot of audiophiles. They just don't know it.)

Then over time the sketchy sound gets filled and colored in until eventually if you got a good one its Technicolor and if you got a really good one 70mm. Last night after one week the sound was so divorced from the speakers and room I could hardly believe it. Fundamentals and harmonic development so fully realized it was easy to hear the skin on the drum, and so free of grain and glare it was like real, palpable presence, on and on.

Hearing this as it happens over such a long period of time is hard at first. Here's a trick that worked for me. Leave everything on all the time. Just leave it on. Everything. No matter what. Do this for at least a week. Probably you will notice nothing. Perfectly normal. Changes happen slow and you're not yet a very experienced listener. Just do it.

Then after at least a full week of this plan some time when you can do the following. Have a really good late night listening session. Play your favorite best recording last. Turn everything off and go to bed.

Next day turn everything on and immediately play that same recording. 

Yeah. And keep in mind that was just overnight. What your system sounded like brand new was much worse. The degree to which you hear a difference doing this is the degree to which you have developed as a skilled listener. Which if you are, it will sound like crap. So crappy you will never ever want to do that again!

Let me know.
Tobor007, that’s an interesting idea.

Kren0006, thanks for sharing your experience with your new system. It’s surprising that minor speaker placement and angling changes can make such a difference. I’ve put off playing with speaker placement until my new system has had more time to burn in. The bass response seem to be improving on its own at this point.

I am looking forward to making speaker placement adjustments now with your input that minor changes had a significant impact with your system. I’m fairly limited on where I can place the speakers in the listening room so am limited to minor adjustments.

There are constraints on how far out from the wall I can place the speakers or how much further I can move them apart from each other. My room is roughly 22’ X 13’ with a high 12/12 pitch cathedral ceiling running lengthwise. At present the speakers are about eight feet apart from one another on center on the long wall. I could squeeze out another foot apart maybe, but that’s about it. The back of the speakers are currently only eleven inches out from the wall. I am unable to place them any further out without creating a foot traffic roadblock.. I spoke with Magico before purchase and they said the A3’s would perform adequately with a minimum of 7" between them and the wall. That’s one of the reasons I got them, as well as that they are not a ported model requiring a greater distance.

So minor adjustments making a big difference is good news to hear Kren. Thanks,

Mike
skyscraper,

DSD is closely associated with SACDs. For simplicity, you could think of it as SACD equals DSD although it is not quite like that. Your Marantz player will play/decode SACDs just like it plays/decodes CDs and you have nothing to think about there. DSD, as the name of the file (it is actually .dsf, or .dff, but do not bother yourself with that) becomes important if you have such a file and you want to play it through some DAC (digital-analog converter). If you ripped a SACD and wanted to play it as a file, and not as a physical rotating disc, you would end up with DSD form of it.

Your Marantz SA-8005 can actually be used as a DAC only and it does support/play DSD files (2.8 and 5.6 MHz). It opens a world of possibilities for trying and time wasting. To do that, you need a DSD file and to figure out how to do it which should not be too complicated. If you are willing to dip your toes in that, I believe that those two albums we have been talking about exist as DSD downloads on some of the "high definition" websites/stores.

If you have not heard your Marantz play SACDs yet, I would like to urge you to try it soon. It is usually quite a difference from a regular CD. You will have to decide if it is big and worthwhile difference, but it is definitely worth trying.

You have to make sure it is set to read SACD layer of the disc. Some players can be adjusted to preference so yours may be a regular CD layer which would be missing a point. Page 30 of the manual explains what to do...

https://www.us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=hificomponents&ProductId=...

Glupson, thanks for the explanation and the link.  I'll read through the explanation on how to play the SACD on the Marantz link you provided. Am I to understand the DSD material is not sold in a disc format, but only as a file download?  I'd like to try out a SACD. At the time I bought the Marantz it appeared  the only content available in SACD  was primarily classical music, and pricey at that, so I never bothered with it.  

If I recall correctly from when setting it up, I think I use the DAC portion of the CD player to play the audio content coming from my Samsung Smart TV. I've yet to reconnect that since I moved all my equipment, so you've reminded me to get that done.

Millercarbon, Thanks for your time in writing that long explanation. After reading though your post twice, I will have to study your explanations some more and learn from them. 

Mike