Curious what people think is the best "value" high end speaker (~5K to 15K)


I am on a long search for speakers and just curious what people think is the best value both new or used in speakers ranging from around $5000 to $15000? I have a set of Paradigm S8's (V1) and love them but looking for another set for another set in a different listening area (25 x 20?, maybe larger).  I love the full sound of JBL's and looking for something in that range (it also helps that JBL's seem to hold their value better than most, which will be a consideration). The only drawback to JBL is footprint.  I prefer a smaller footprint which is why after reading I hope to listen to several B&W 800 series but open to suggestions across the board.  used Watt Puppies? Revels?  I am curious about peoples experience with McIntosh XR100's. 
gene3x
@steve59  I feel for you. And understand. I've been working on system wide improvements short of 2 years now. Though it has taken significant effort and time and finances, I now have 'that' highly emotional and intellectually satisfying and rewarding musical result. Keep at it. Stay emotionally available. : )
Persona 3f with anthem str amp was unbelievable, but when I heard it with naim setup, it sounded dead. In the end I bought used totem wind,  closer in my price range 6k. With my amp it sounds beautiful.  
Gershman Acoustics GAP - unfortunately they are no longer made, but second hand can be had for around $7k-$8k in pristine condition.

Stunning to look at and listen to and completely transparent.

I have the Sonograms and sound wise they are exceptional - but they are no longer made either.

The Avant Garde's are smaller and perform to the same level as the Sonograms

Their newer models are less attractive - more techie looking, but easier to build.

Regards
Audio is based on sound. And sound is based on different properties. And you will find these different properties/aspects of sound on each recording. So it make sense that your loudspeaker is able to reveal all these differerent aspects/properties of sound.

But......when you will judge loudspeakers on which properties they can reveal the facts proof that by far the most loudspeakers are not able to reveal all these different aspects/properties of sound.

And what is missing, never can be revealed. So it doesn’t matter which amp, source, cable or conditioner you will use. The loudspeaker cannot reveal all the properties of sound.

Humans beings can reveal sound and music in a 3 dimensional stage. But almost all loudspeakers which are produced worldwide in all price ranges cannot create more than 1 metre of stage depth. This is a hifi stereo parameter. And has nothing to do with highend audio or 3-dimensiona sound.

The fact that almost all loudspeakers are 2-dimensional proofs that the manufacturers have often only little insight and knowledge regarding sound and music. Because when they would have know this, their products would be able to reveal all the different aspects of sound.

What I wrote before, I will not name the brands who are 2-dimensional and miss other aspects of sound. When I call the brands of the loudspeakers who are 2D and moiss other aspects the people who own these incomplete loudspeakers will feel offended.

Beside 3-dimensional soundstage, there is another important aspect what also can be revealed by even less loudspeakers. And this is diversity in height. This is when a loudspeaker is able to let you experience the differences in height of both voices and instruments.

I call it the 8th property of sound. And why it is so important?

When an audio system can reveal the differences in height of voices and instruments is has a big influence of the harmonics of a recording. The sound has often more layers. This gives music a more emotional touch.

You only can create an audio system what is able to reveal all properties of sound, when each single part of your system own all the asepcts/properties of sound. Each part what is incomplete will always create a limitation in each system where you use it.

Your amp, source, cables, conditioner and even your fuses need to own all the different asepcts of sound. When you judge amps, sources, cables, conditioners and even fuses on their DNA/properties they own. Again the facts proof that almost all audio products in the world (regardless price) which are produced do not own all the different aspectc/properties of sound.

When an audio system can let you hear and experience all the details and aspects/properties of sound it will create a superior level in emotion and intensity compared to any incomplete trail and error created system. Due ot the fact that each individual property/aspect of sound can influence the human emotion during listening to music.

Humans cannot create a stunning and sublime sounding audio system based on the fact that most humans can only focus on 1 till 3 of all the different properties of sound. You all create your personal system by trial and error. Again we are talking about a 100% fact.

This means you connect loudspeakers, an amp, cables and a source together. And you will listen to the endresult. The biggest limitations of this is the fact that you cannot reveal the full DNA of each single part within your own system.

When you are at home and you listen to your system you will listen to all the different aspects/properties of each part in your set together and the influence of your acoustics and other parts who negatively influences your sound and stage; smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism.

This proofs how complex sound really is. But you need to understand it all to be able to comprehend why the sound and stage (only 2 aspects/properties of sound) is what you hear. Trail and error will never make you understand what you are doing. You choices have no founding. This means that you make your choices on random order. That is why trial and error is 100% pure gambling. That is why we call it audiogambling.

You only can understand audio and for vision counts the same. When you think and work by all the different aspects/properties of sound. And you need to understand all the different aspects who influences both sound and stage.

And then we are just only starting. It even goes a lot further than this alone. You need to understand the way our emotion and brains work regaring sound and music. You need to undersrand the 3 aspects who influences our emotion during listening to music. It took me thousands of hours to undersrand all these different aspects. But in 1998 I had a mindset. And I was aware that when I want to understand why all different loudspeakers/amps/sources etc all sound so different . I need to understand each property and influence on sound. This is why I did thousands of tests to be able to extract the dull dna of each individual part of an audio system.

I did the most reseach regaring the acouctics based on the fact that is has the biggest influence on both sound and stage. But in the last years I also did a lot of reach in smog, highfrequent noise and magnetism.

Trial and error creates incomplete audio systems. They miss essential parts of sound. You need them all to feel the full emotion on a recording.

Audio is all about sound and the aspects/properties of sound. You never can understand audio when you do not understand sound and music.

The last thing what is also needed is that you know how voices and instruments sounds in real. And how big they are in size. And the way they are projected in space. Money does not garantee you anything in audio. And for loudspeakers counts the same.




We only use the word highend, when a loudspeaker can reveal all the different aspects/properties of sound. This is needed when you can perceive all the detail and different apects of a recording. By far most loudspeakers cannot reveal all the aspects of sound. That is why we call these loudspeakers hifi loudspeakers. When a loudspeaker does not own all the parameters of sound it would be even silly to call it highend. You want audio to sound as realisic as possible.