Thiel Owners

Thanks for the welcome, jafant...and Happy New Year to you & yours as well!

oblgny:  Thanks for your very detailed post...a lot of information I plan on putting to good use!  You've pretty much confirmed what I was suspecting...that the Thiels are simply reproducing what's been recorded.  

As a child of the 80's, I grew up in the world of Japanese "mid-fi". And while I have always been one who lives by "It's about listening to music", I cannot help but now feel that what I'm really needing to do is move into the realm of Hi-Fi.  The Thiels represent the first truly Hi-Fi piece of equipment I have owned & I can now understand why component matching becomes so critical as one "moves up the ladder."

It's a journey I will be excited to make...

Arvin

oblgny-


since you have owned and lived w/ several Integrated amps, which one  fared better w/ Thiel speakers? We have the same musical tastes and I value your input/opinion as always.

Happy Listening!

arvincastro,

I was a child of the 60's and grew up in the heyday of the "receiver wars" - Pioneer,  Kenwood, Sansui,  Marantz to name perhaps the most popular brands.  Prior to becoming able to afford any one of those my family's "stereo" was a Magnavox console driven by tubes,  LP only - no radio,  no nothing.

I still own a Pioneer SX1050 as well as a Marantz 2252B receiver,  both of which are currently being employed and enjoyed as my girlfriend's sources of music in her house.  In her living room the Pioneer is mated to a fairly cosmetically compromised pair of Meadowlark Kestrels,  a manufacturer that shared an appreciation for coherent sound like Jim Thiel.  The setup still surprises me as to how damn good it sounds.  Those old receivers still rock.

I do believe that I stumbled upon this site looking for another piece of "vintage" equipment.  It's going on five years membership here now,  and I think at the time I had a Cayin integrated amp rated at around 30 watts or so per channel,  with a pair of Klipsch CF-3 loudspeakers that I purchased just around the corner from my new house.  (circa 1994)  Since discovering Audiogon it's been all downhill...

I'm joking of course.

I began with CS2.2,  then CS2.3,  until my first pair of CS3.5 about....4 years ago,  methinks.  I drove to Massachusetts to pick them up.  While I liked both of the earlier models,  it was the CS3.5 which really upgraded my system.  There have been only two manufacturers that have made me stop in my tracks walking back to my seat while starting the music,  one is,  obviously,  Thiel,  the other Magnepan.  What these brands do so damn well for me negates any "shortcomings" of either - they reproduce music,  not sound.  IMHO.

Anyway...that's when I began buying stuff here.  I was curious.  You know the drill.

So...in order of preference with Thiel...

Amplification:
First Watt M2 - low powered solid state that got me addicted to Pass Labs.  Bought it,  within a month traded it back for the Pass Labs X150.5 amp.

Pass Labs X150.5 - 150 watts into 8 ohms,  300 watts into 4 ohms,  plenty enough for my CS3.5's.  Incredible improvement to my system.  Colorless amp,  colorless speakers.  Truly the best match so far.

Primare A34.2 integrated - class D,  150 watts into 8 ohms,  "almost 300" into 4 ohms.  (Actual quote from Primare when I inquired.)  Don't let anyone tell you that class D amps aren't suited for Thiel - they ARE.  The reason I traded that off was because I could not employ the CS3.5 bass equalizer without...I forget.  It was a pain in the ass.  I had separates before where gettin git in there was easier.

Conrad Johnson MF2200,  2100 - very punchy and low-mid emphasized.  CJ seemed to hold something back through the Thiels.  Can be had pretty cheaply here from time to time.  Mated with two different ARC preamps and still...

McIntosh 6700 Receiver - 200 watts per channel,  and $6700 ill-spent. Like so many of us McIntosh continued to have a hold on my imagination over the years.  Didn't have it long.

McIntosh MC275 Mark VI amplifier - loved it,  but when a tube blew within a week I contacted McIntosh directly and related the problem to some "customer service" person who simply made me aware of the fact that didn't manufacture the tubes.  I responded, "well they have the word McIntosh screened onto them, so..."   Thanks to Dave Wasserman at Stereo Exchange in NYC for stepping into assist me - but I was done.  With McIntosh forever.  Feh!


As far as you're concerned I would suggest staying away from the "vintage" gear out there with the only exception being Threshold.  As I related in my earlier post,  I thought my Threshold's power meters were malfunctioning,  but when the gent whom I sold it to told me they were working fine I realized I just wasn't pushing it for them to register.  Somewhere amidst all of this swapping in and out I had an Adcom and it pulsed my speakers on startup.  Whoosh!  Away it went.

Regarding preamps,  I truly lean toward Audio Research in that regard.  To my ears they provided punch to the various amps I was using.  (And there are  more....)  I also enjoyed a passive preamp for a while - I forget the brand - and with the Pass and the passive pre the Thiels were remarkably brilliant,  if not as "forward" sounding as before.  

Oh yes,  with all due haste I do have to mention that when I had separates I changed all my cabling over to Transparent.  I had something of a mish-mosh of cabling prior,  but after reading what jafant espouses here regarding cables I thought,  "Why the hell not?  Everything else I've learned from this forum has had value to one extent or another..."  I also think Goertz cables work very well with Thiel.

This IS a great forum.  Folks here have truly helped me out in many,  many,  ways.  unsound, mapman,  jafant - to name a few - have all assisted me in bettering my stuff.  I appreciate it.

Happy new year Thiel lovers!

arvincastro,

I own Thiel 2.0, 2.7 and the last flagship 3.7 speakers. I’ve also in the past had the big Thiel CS6 speakers.

For me the combination of Thiels and tube amplification is magic.

Previous to hearing Thiels on tubes I’d always heard them on solid state amps and while I loved aspects of the sound - the accuracy, aliveness, density of imaging, believable tone etc, I also found them a bit “tight” sounding, a bit reductive in shaving off a bit of the fullness in voices and instruments and I could also see why some found them fatiguing after a while.

That all changed for me when I heard Thiel CS 6 speakers with VAC tube amplification at a CES audio show. It was among the most beautiful sound I’d ever heard.  (And I remember other people commenting, even non Thiel fans, that it was a stand out room at the show).

I couldn’t afford VAC amps but wondered if I’d get any similar synergy with the Conrad Johnson tube amp I owned. So I ended up with a pair of the CS 6 at my place. They did indeed have a similar tonal richness that I heard at CES, but my amp then was only 55w and not known for good bass control or playing tough loads.

I upgraded to a second hand pair of the Conrad Johnson Premier 12 tube monoblocks 140W/side and - bam! - just the ticket. The sound was now everything I’d hoped for: smooth, tonally rich yet accurate sounding, open and not rolled off sounding, and punchy and controlled throughout far whole frequency range.

I still have the CJ amps powering my various Thiels and it’s always a killer combo. I have a case of tinnitus and harsh or bright speakers do a number on my ears, but I can listen to my system for as many hours as I like. Bad recordings and all.

A reviewer pal of mine who’d complained of Thiels always being fatiguing for him finds my system to sound gorgeous, organic, realistic and anything but fatiguing.

So that’s one storey for you to ponder if you are contemplating tubes with Thiels.
I don’t think I’m getting the last word in what the Thiels can do in sheer dynamics perhaps, vs what a very powerful SS amp would give me. But I absolutely require a sense of dynamic life in a system and I have it with this combo.
(Back when I had the Thiel 6s I also owned a Bryson 4Bst amp, 250w and a powerhouse in terms of driving any speaker I threw at if. But I consistently preferred the CJ premier 12s on the Thiels).

All that audiophile stuff being said: please remember the role of room acoustics and speaker positioning given how profoundly it affects the sound. If you find the sound can become too harsh sometimes, even before contemplating adding acoustic treatment just playing with speaker angles and positions can work. For instance you should find that towing out the speakers more (facing more straight ahead inst ad of angled toward your listening position) will make the sound a bit less bright and more lush. Same with moving the speakers closer to you, which will take more of the room reflection/hash out of the sound for a smoother presentation.

I favour sitting closer to my Thiels, with the speakers facing more straight ahead, for these reasons.

Thank You- oblgny
you have had quite an Audio journey my friend. We all are lucky to enjoy such a fun hobby. Is there any new gear or upgrades headed your way in 2018?

Happy Listening!