Spendor, Harbeth...why so hot ?

soundsrealaudio,

I have to disagree: nothing in audio, especially speakers, is that simple.
Any end result for a speaker is about execution, and no one simple approach predicts one will be more successful than the other.

I've had several speakers that used the "singing cabinets" or thin walled approach.   I've had speakers with the opposite approach.  Both can work very well.

I recently owned the Harbeth Super HL5plus, while also owning Thiel 3.7 speakers.  The Thiels are built exactly the opposite: damping spurious resonance at every opportunity to remove the speaker signature.
One may predict on your theory that the Harbeths would be the speaker with "life" and the Thiels would be the more "dead" sounding speaker.

Just the opposite:  I sold the Harbeths because they could not IMO produce the sense of life - of aliveness and immediacy and dynamics - the Thiels gave me. 

I recently also purchased smaller Thiel 2.7s.   Those speakers are damped just like the big ones, and have just as complex a crossover, and are in fact significantly less sensitive.  One may have presumed they *should* be harder to drive and it would take more to get them to sound lively.  Just the opposite: hooked up to the same system the 2.7s sound even more life-like in dynamics than the bigger 3.7s.  And certainly far more dynamic, in terms of producing the enthusiasm of recorded musicians, than I ever got from my Harbeths (or any other Harbeths I've heard, including the 40.1s).

Nothing is simple in high end audio.  Surprises abound.

@prof 
i would challenge your setup- speaker positioning and listening position.  when positioned properly the SHL5s have amazing stage depth and disappear completely.  they need to be 4-5 feet from the wall and you should listen nearfield in an equilateral triangle.  they are nearfield monitors after all.  

@oregonpapa 
I have the C7ES and properly integrated with a very easy to integrate JL Audio subwoofer (D110).  this combination comes extremely close to the sound of the 40.2s at a fraction of the cost.  

avanti,

Given I really enjoy speakers that disappear and soundstage (though I’m first concerned with tonality), I’m experienced in getting the best soundstaging out of speakers in my room.

I did indeed listen in nearfield, as that is my preferred set-up, because most speakers disappear more that way.. I have a treated room with great acoustics (done with an acoustician) and I’m used to getting world-class soundstaging from all manner of speakers. The Thiel 3.7s are mind-blowing in that regard, bettered only (if at all) by my MBL omnis. (And to head off the idea that I'm used to false spaciousness with the MBLs, again, the Thiels do realistic soundstage depth, as do my Waveform speakers, Hales speakers, even my Spendor 3/5s, and every other speaker I've owned in the past).

I played with all sorts of positions with the Harbeths including further away than usual, and closer, narrow, wide, perfect triangle and everything in between (they were often about 5 feet from the rear wall, and between 5 and 7 feet from my listening position depending on the set up I chose). I’m not saying there were bad and didn’t do a decent disappearing act, especially given their looks wouldn’t imply they would disappear like more modern, slim designs. But as I said, I never really got a convincingly real depth out of them and they never disappeared in terms of "speaker sound" to the degree I’ve experienced with many other brands.

My hunch is that the lively cabinet approach, though chosen mostly to try and make the speaker invisible, may nonetheless have had an effect on the character of the sound. There was of course a nice fullness. But also what I’d describe as a subtle "thickness" - almost as if even the ambience between instruments had it’s own level of texture. It was pleasant in many ways. But when you set up something like the Thiels right after, a design that has reduced cabinet and other speaker colorations to amazingly low levels, it reveals that added cabinet-type bloom heard with the Harbeths - everything just cleans up and to my ears it really adds another level of believably. The speakers disappear more, and there is discernibly less ’speaker sound.’ I wouldn’t give a damn about a speaker that only disappeared and sounded low coloration if it meant the sound as clinical or anti-septic. However, the Thiels in my set up using Conrad Johnson gear sound anything but clinical - it reveals more about the tonal character of instruments.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure not slagging the Harbeths. I enjoyed them enough to buy a pair and maybe would still be listening to them if I didn’t have other speakers to compare. The Harbeths really do a superb job of sounding crystal clear while not too fatiguing. And they have that special way with vocals: on the Harbeths I was often aware of the actual singer singing, a fleshy presence, where I could sense the actual small efforts of a singer. No matter how music was produced, pop, metal, jazz, the Harbeths always managed to find a human being in there singing.

Prof,

I agree with your analysis of the Harbeth 100%.

I also have the SLH5 plus and love them.  But have never been able to get that real disappearing act as with other speakers.  While I also had a pair of Thiel 2.7 and they did throw a wonderful soundstage the listener fatigue was something I could not live with.  Also had a pair of Dynaudio C1 that really did disappear, but couldn't live with them long term.

The disappearing act would make the Harbeth absolutely perfect, so for now I just live for everything else they do so well.  For great soundstage I just rotate my Quad esl57's, now and then.

Life really is a series of compromises!

yashu,

I'm curious if you ever tried tube amplification with your Thiels.  That's my preference.  I could see Thiels being a bit more relentless with SS amps, especially if one's room isn't very damped.  But for me in a well controlled room, with CJ tube amps, the Thiels have proven about the least fatiguing speaker I've owned in decades (and I have very sensitive ears, including Tinnitus that gets aggravated by the slightest brightness/shoutiness/distortion in the upper registers).   My reviewer friend always had the "Thiels are bright and fatiguing" bias until he heard my set up, after which he did a 180 degree about face, feeling they were super smooth to listen to.

Back to the Harbeths, I really admired the great sense of balance and control through the whole frequency range.  They were powered by my CJ premier 12 monoblocks and sounded great.