How much gain is needed in a Phono Preamp for a 0.2 to 0.3mv low output moving coil?


I have been out of audio for 25 years and am now getting back into getting a system. I have looked at Manley Chinook, Ear 834p, and Audio research 5, 6, 7 Phono preamps, after reading thru many or post on Audiogon. All have about 57db gain to 60 bd gain. I have been looking at getting either a Dynavector 10x5, Benz micro Silver, Ortofon Quintet Black, or a used Benz Ruby Z (if I can find the money). Is 57db enough gain for the cartridges. I would also welcome feedback on the Phono Preamp. I am leaning toward the ARC PH7 or Manley. Either would be around the same price. I would prefer to stay with tubes. The turntable is a VPI Prime. Any help or opinion would be greatly appreciated.
128x128juke4u
Lots of good comments, many of them cautiously worded...I hope your takeaway is that you could do better.
I have recently troubleshooted a friend's Chinook/Prime setup and before we got things sorted out had to get replacement tubes for the Manley and properly functioning junction box from VPI. Even after working through that, with his Ortofon Qunitet Black(0.3mv) his Primaluna linestage needed to be cranked up very high and while generally musical, I wouldn't call it a quiet presentation, nor one that I could live with. IMHO, 60db gain in the phono stage would be better matched with a cart >=.5mv. There are plenty of nice phono stages that offer 65 or 70db gain. When dealing with small phono signals an extra 5db of quiet gain is nothing to sneeze at.
Contrary to some here, I would suggest staying away from adding a SUT at this level of system, as most of them will take away from the purity of the signal, add more cabling and related susceptibility to incremental RFI/EMI. When considering adding a Kondo SUT to your 6figure table setup, then maybe you can convince me otherwise. Cheers,
Spencer
"Thank You" everyone for the help. I have been away from this so long I will probably never catch up. I am constantly learning things and finding new products. I had looked at the Herron and the ARC Ref. but the price set me back a little. I had never heard of the Orpheus (Transfiguration) cartridge and had to check it out. I like everything I read about the Benz (lowest $1800) and after reading about the Transfiguration cartridges (lowest $2450) I was very impressed. That being said, I am very concerned that with the VPI Prime I may be spending more on a cartridge than I should considering my TT. Please honest opinions, you will not hurt my feelings.Opinions help you learn.
Not sure if anyone tried this. I went to the store that sells Granite counter tops and got the cut out for a double sink for $1.00 (yes a dollar). I had them cut it to my size and edge it for $45.00. All I have to do now is find some feet for isolation. Is sorbothane still a good isolation damper?

Thanks Everyone, Zuddie

"I like everything I read about the Benz (lowest $1800) and after reading about the Transfiguration cartridges (lowest $2450) I was very impressed. That being said, I am very concerned that with the VPI Prime I may be spending more on a cartridge than I should considering my TT. Please honest opinions, you will not hurt my feelings.Opinions help you learn."

Reading and listening are 2 completely different things. Carts that you read about will probably sound different in your system (how much can vary).

Synergy is much more important than price.

Your TT is fine. I wouldn't make plans to upgrade before you listen to it.

Keep it simple. A LOMC is fine. Match it to a phono pre that can handle the output and don't worry about an SUT. Also, at this level, I wouldn't fool with tubes either.

Personally I would avoid the Transfiguration/VPI combo. I tried both a Temper Supreme and and Spirit III on my Classic and still got some IGD on hotter records. Tried all manner of alignments and protractors and eventually sold both carts. It was particularly hard to do because they sound so damn good most of the time.

I have an AT ART9 now and that is what I would recommend you start with. Will sound great with most any standard (60db) MC preamp gain.
Not all cartridges work well on a unipivot arm. I would research what owners of VPI's unipivot arm have had best success with. As suggested above, the ART9 is getting great buzz across the board so that would be a Prime candidate, pun intended. ;^)

Dave