Tonearm recommendation

Dear fleib: """ your bit about pure musical information going through the wires is bizarre. Of course you can overdamp an arm. Look at the output on a scope. """

of course is bizarre but remember that I’m talking on an " ideal and perfect audio world "": that’s what all audiophiles want (  "" pure musical information going through the wires...""" )  and only can dream with. At least me.

Why? because that’s not posible with so many vibration/noise/resonances/distortions/anomalies sources that not only surround the LP/cartridge but where any single part of the whole analog rig has and intimate relationship in between others making more complex to identify each one source of those " overall anomalies " and the result when those single source " anomalies " are mixed with the other ones coming for the other analog rig sources and that’s why we need to " overdamp " each one of those sources of " overall anomalies " that always degrade the recorded signal because all those " anomalies does not exist in the recorded signal that comes in the LP groove modulations.

Now, I posted this so try to give you the answer to that WHY? and share your answer or answers with all of us:


"""" Why exist the still points, vibraplane platforms, after market tubes dampers and " better " tubes circuit board bases, items to damp speakers/CD players/amps/preamps, cable elevators, clamps and TT mats, room treatment, speaker designers that take care of internal cabinet damping along the choosed build materials, speaker designers that take care seriously that the speaker crossover be perfectly damped and even designs with an external crossover, we audiophuiles that are looking how to kill vibrations anywhere the audio system?

Why every one: designers, manufacturers, reviewers, customers are looking where is that best damping item? WHY? """""


Yes, we can damp a tonearm or any other audio item at different damping levels even " overdamp " looking at the output of a scope ( as you said it. ) and this is part of the main subject of what I’m talking about. In an ideal world what I need is that looking to that scope signal exist no " anomalies/deviations " of any kind to preserve that critical/sensitive/fragile " pure music information traveling in the internal tonearm wires ".

" Overdamp "?, to whom? where is the damage to the music signal coming in the wires that comes from what’s recorded in the LP grooves modulations?

I made those questions to you and any one but first that any one even think about I would like to ask to you and the other contributors in this thread this:

DO YOU WANT TO LISTEN WHAT THE PHONO CARTRIDGE PICK UP FROM THE LP MODULATIONS WITH OUT ANY SINGLE " ANOMALIES " OR YOU WANT TO LISTEN IT WITH ADDED FULL CONTAMINATION OF EVERY KIND OF SYSTEM GENERATED DISTORTIONS?

that’s my target and for I can be nearer tho that target I have to mantain at minimum all the audio system generated " anomalies " at each single system link and damping is only an important step to do it along other steps.

Due that that’s my main target I have not fear to " overdamp " because according with that target no one can do it.

Which your target?

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.


PS: btw, there is in this thread a gentleman that ( some years ago ) , if I remember, posted answering to an Agoner that " we can´t overdamp " a TT or platter TT " ( more or less. ).

I know he is reading this and I hope he can post about because is a person that I have high respect for his knowledge level and if he posted that I know he has several reasons about.

Dear fleib: Of course there are several ways to damp and oil damping is only one of them, I posted several ways to do it in several audio system links but I talked too ofdamping through self damped build materials and a blend of build materials. I talked too that we can’t just disappear overall distortions but that the target is to mantain it at minimum.
Some kind of damping helps to change the frequency range where those distortionas happens or to convert to other kind of energy or lowering its SPL, etc, etc. I did not said nothing against all these.

Twe oil used on unipivots is used because mainly because its natural unstability of that kind of design but not really to damp overall the tonearm ( the only unipivot I own that does not needs bearing oil is the Satin. ). I heard too what stringreen posted in my Audiocraft but insiste that’s not the damping ( every kind. ) I’m talking about.
The damping mechanism used in the Technics EPA-100 or in the MAX 237 or in the SME V are out of the tonearm bearing because are not unipivots. In non-unipivots designs oil/silicon kind of damping goes out side bearings.

A kind of damp is that the arm wand be tapered as the cartridge cantilevers or as the SAEC and I think the VPI using 2-3 metal parts ( in the arm wand. ) joined.

The important subject here is that does not matters which kind of damping is used because all the system audio links need it. A non damped TT, cartridge, speaker or tonearm is only a " distortions generator ".

As I said the target is to mantain at minimum any kind of distortion. Insist we can’t really " overdamp ".

Now, it’s not only: " hey I need to damp ". No, we have to know where to do it, how to do it and what use to make that damp.

Btw, you don’t answer that big: WHY and what you want to listen.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

There are two kinds of damping used in tone arms. One is damping of the arm tube- in this case its impossible to overdamp it, except that there might be the issue of adding too much mass to the arm!

The other is to damp the **motion** of the arm. This is done with a damping trough or similar. In this case there is no question that the arm can be overdamped!

I'm just putting this out there in case there is confusion about what is meant by 'overdamping'. We need to be talking about the same things!

I like the Triplanar because its arm tube is well damped; independently of that it has a damping trough in case you want to damp its motion.