question about speaker placement. dead end room?


sorry for what may seem like a stupid question but here it is anyway. my "hi-fi mentor" came over yesterday to give a listen to my new system upgrades and tweeks. recently upgraded my power lines and cords along with IC's and speaker cable (still waiting for one final IC and power cord but i'm 90% there).

he stated that regardless of what i upgrade and how good i think it sounds, my speaker placement is too close to the rear wall. he said i shouldn't bother upgrading anymore until this can be resolved (waste of money until i get the speaker position right in his opinion) my aerial 7b's are about 14 inches off the wall measuring from the rear port and 28 inches if measuring from the front woofer. the room is such that even testing the aerial's at a "good distance" off given wall is impossible. my listening position would be way too close.

i use a velodyne dd12 which comes with a very useful/in depth tuning kit. spent many hours with this kit and finally got a pretty flat curve in the end (which also happened to sound right/good to my ears). it did take alot of work to get rid of a few huge base peaks, but i did get them hammered out eventually.

there is no way to put the aerial's in a postion that meets the general guidelines of speaker placement...per the cardas web site and other resources. would need to relocate the entire system to a different room and install a new dedicated ac line. neither of which is something i want to do.

my question is....

do i really have a "dead end room" where i've basically gone as far as i can go?. am i wasting my money on these IC and power source upgrades when such a glaring "sin" is present in my system.

like i said before....i think my system sounds pretty good. just wondering if i'm spinning my wheels (and tossing money away) by pushing forward with small, incremental upgrades and tweeks.
levy03
While it is generally true that if speakers are placed too close to the front wall, imaging becomes flatter and the sense of sound enveloping the listener and filling up a large space is compromised, that hardly means that it is pointless to try to work with a particular room use demand/arrangement.

First, all speakers can be made to sound quite dramatically different by making very small changes in placement. You can make a huge change in sound just by moving the speakers a tiny amount and by making corresponding changes in the toe-in, vertical rake angle, etc. Finding the best arrangement can be a haphazard trial and error process, or, you can use more systematic methods. Do an internet search for the "Sumiko" method or the "Wilson" method. With some experimentation, you will find that there are MANY spots where your Aerials will work well that won't require a radical do-over of your system or your room.

If you are willing to change speakers, you can also look at speakers that are meant to work in close proximity to room boundaries and with other difficult placement requirements. The Audionote and Gradient brand, for example, design speakers for such applications.

Finally, I have heard all sorts of room treatments and dedicated listening rooms with extreme acoustic makeovers. At best, I would say, proper acoustic treatment is a crap shoot. It is still hard to predict the result and "more" is often "less" desirable. Some of the weirdest systems I've heard were in ultra expensive specially built and treated rooms. One can easily go too far, based on some philosophical or scientific system/principle. I would say take room treatment slow and easy. Start with things that won't make your room look ugly and uninviting and won't compromise the functionality of the room. For example, a few small tapestries/wall hangings can be enough to tame high frequency slap echos and often work better than putting too much treatment on the walls. A carpet on the floor in front of the speakers often works well too. If possible, avoid a big coffee table between the speakers and your listening position.

Good luck on your efforts. While your friend is somewhat correct in suggesting that proper speaker placement and room treatment are a priority, I would not agree that it is pointless to try to work with the rough demands of a particular setup and room and to also upgrade your other components.
Toole's book is not a light read, but it captures everything you need to know about acoustics. Give it a try, you will like it and then know what an 'authority' is.
get a tube or class A amp. You won't need the fireplace in the winter and can reorient the listening position.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65908.0

It is a discussion of Master Set - also called the Sumiko method.
Br3098, i totally agree. my concern isn't really about how good my system sounds. like you said...i like it and am enjoying it. no problem there. the issue is with my obsession to improve and "make it better". seems a few folks have the same problem around here =)

the best analogy i can use is this. putting a tricked out suspension into a car with all season tires (upgrading IC's, speaker wire, power supply on a system with non-optimal speaker placement). even though the suspension will help the cars handling (new upgrades did sound better to me), would it be smarter to address the tire's instead or first? (speaker placement)

it does seem like a silly question though (and i say so right off the bat). should i stop trying to improve my systems various "connections" due to room constraints and speaker position. am i wasting my effort/money here and should i focus on the room and placement first.

Larry's reply hit it spot on. the room in question is not just a listening room. it's my family room where we watch TV, play games and just hang out. i do not want to/can't make it a place where only i go to hear music. the room must be comfortable and inviting while still sounding "good". i have no plans to dedicate the room to hi-fi. once i get the speakers into a decent location, window treatments and some additional carpet is all i plan/am willing to do.

Rich was also spot on by pointing out that if music is a priority, it needs to treated as such. that's why his suggestion of adding a set a speakers really appealed to me (and my budget since i already have an extra set of decent speakers). it will still be a family room but can become a good listening room too (by sitting somewhere else in the room to listen).

my life has always been one big compromise lol!. finding the right balance, as opposed to perfection has become my calling card. this is just another example.

i'm back on course for now. thanks to all for the great advice/input!