Hyperion HPS 968 or Coincident Total Victory IV

Trelja...What amps are you using and which model Coincident are you using ??

If you can get in touch with Paul F. I would like to get his comments on the 211 amps and the Hyperion's.

thanks for the info.

The Consonance 211 SET amps were an excellent match with Hyperion 938s. Tonally, they were perfectly balanced, and the bass and bass dynamics were better than with 200 watt solid-state monoblocks. Power was never lacking.

John Potis also raved about essentially the same combination (968s) as did Steve R. of Enjoy the Music, who bought both the 938s and the 211s after reviewing both.

Someone who refers to a 211 SET as 'flea-powered' must not have a lot of experience with SETs and/or be familiar with speakers that are truly a bear to drive (usually meaning poorly designed).

[However, choosing speakers first followed by amplifiers that mate with them is the most sensible path.]

16 watts is still 16 watts no matter what planet your from. The speaker dips to 3.8 ohms and requires a min of 50/ch per spec. Small room, chamber works and a tendency to play music softly will help of course. I recall visiting a residence with Avalons and a whole lot of expensive equipment where the owner played his system about as loud as my AM radio...plus, it had more hum than a million kilowatt sub station! It was an interesting glimpse into the mind of some audiophiles. No matter what, certain people are just determined to like less than ideally matched/applied gear:O ) Playing anything full scale at concert level requires balls, er.. I mean watts. If you 'aint got 'em then ya makes do with what ya got. If you have a choice however, choose more power...despite the SET myths and legends that have propagated about the high end community, you can find great sounding amplification without the limitations:O)

Again, Paul definitely knows what he's talking about here. In fact, I think in the myriad iterations of his system, he actually ended up with this permutation (though with the Cyber 845 the first go 'round) twice! And, I hold the opinion of my late dear friend, John Potis, in the highest regard, as we were more often than not on the same page when it comes to tastes and likes/dislikes.

As for me, I believe Coincidents, and most dynamic (please allow me clarify: of the non-single driver type) loudspeakers, sound best with moderately powered transformer coupled, push-pull tube amplification such as my Jadis DA30 and DA60, and the Consonance Cyber 800 6CA7, 15th Anniversary Cyber 100 Signature KT88, and Cyber 100 Signature EL34 models.

My rationale behind this is that a bit of power is needed to get a larger driver going, control it, and have it able to produce the amount of "pop" I consider necessary to do justice to the music. And, I believe a transformer lends a certain "beauty" to the sound that keeps the average dynamic speaker from becoming too forward or lightweight that not having one might.

I've also used the Consonance Cyber 10 Multifunction KT88, Cyber 10 Signature 2A3, Cyber 100 Signature 6550, Cyber 100S Signature 300B, Cyber 300B PSE, and Cyber 845 with the speakers, though I'm less sanguine about those combinations.

My loudspeakers are heavily modified Digital Master/Troubass subwoofers. I would say that in regards to your concern about low level detail, which I believe is a reflection not on the Coincidents per se, as they use drivers produced by the more well established companies out there, but dynamic loudspeakers in general, my way of addressing it was to have my friend Bill Legall of Millersound completely rebuild the cone drivers, making them much faster, much punchier, more detailed, and more efficient (I should capitalize the M in much/more because it was that noticeable). Or, I should say, that he came up with the solution after listening to them, as all of the credit should go to him as the man truly has magic flowing through him.

Regarding your own desires, Abill, I believe you've laid them out very well. Again, in my opinion, it's a very rare dynamic speaker that can match the speed and clarity of the Lowther/Fostex/etc. type of driver used in designs like the Cain and Cain. And, in fact, it may be unobtainable. At least, if I had to put my money on it, I would say it was.

That being the case, from where I'm sitting, knowing you are swinging for the fences, I'd investigate the Hornings which marry the Lowther driver to multiple woofers or look into the companies that offer single driver and subwoofer products designed to go together like CarderSound, Cain & Cain, etc. when it comes to loudspeakers that can satisfy you. I will say the CarderSound Madisons with their larger drivers can certainly produce more than surprising low end, though at the expense of the imaging and detail the smaller driver models excel at.

DISCLAIMER: Jeff Carder of CarderSound and Jeff Catalano of Highwater Sound (Horning importer) I are close personal friends.

Sorry, Dave, but oversimplification doesn't make one smarter.

Yes, we will agree that "16 watts is 16 watts" - only a moron could argue otherwise.

However:

- The beefy class A power supply of a SET is able to supply 16W continuous with no problems.

- It is well-known that SET amps are able to swing more voltage than their max wattage rating would imply for brief periods

- When they do clip, it is entirely benign and recovery is very fast.

The end result is that in the real world, a 16W SET can power speakers that the average, or even very good, class AB solid-sate amp of a similar power rating could never hope to.

Chamber music only?? How can you possibly think you can draw conclusion like this when you have evidently NEVER HEARD THE COMBO but I have OWNED it? Not to mention the two different reviewers who said things very differently?

Here are some numbers for you that you should be able to understand:

A 90 dB/W speakers gives you 90 dB with one watt input at 1m.

Adding the second speaker gives you another 3 dB - 93 dB.

Moving back 2.5M drops you about 10 dB - so at a typical listening distance we now have 83 dB with 1W.

86 dB with 2@, 89 dB at 4, and 92 dB at 8W.

I don't know how you listen, but 92 dB average SPL is PLENTY loud for most people on most music.

But wait - these are anechoic figures! We have totally ignored room gain, which as anyone who knows anything about acoustics will tell you is VERY substantial in any typical room.

Sorry to be blunt, but for someone to use their theoretical musings to tell people with actual experience that they're wrong and don't know what they're are talking about is really amazing.