Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 7 vs. Kharma 3.2

proper setup for wilsons?

patience & a good ear.

also, IMO the rives setup methodology (found on AA faq) is the best way to get them right.

rhyno

"I will provide some additional information about my system. My room size is about 22' x 22' with a 20' high ceiling. Accoustics are difficult, due to several open walls leading into other rooms and windows."

You may want to look into the new Focal SM11's or SM8's with built in DSP may be the best choice as the modestly priced 8's ($7500/pr) have a Beryllium tweeter and these speakers redefine neutral, but play louder and have better bass and clarity than either of these two over laquered wannabe's. The 8's would wear out the similar Kharma's in every possible category and the Kharma's still can't be eq'd to correct room problems. W-cone Focal and Beryllium tweeter, versus old school tioxid and ceramic?

The SM11's ($20K) are unbelievable for such a small package and with the room correction built-in to the effects of your cubed room could be minimized, especially since you can sit near-field on these monitors. The 11's can match the Wilson in every positive way....the only reason I bring this up is your room is a cube and I suspect it has big windows etc, so no matter what speaker you buy your room is a big ugly acoustic monster that must be dealt with and considered.

Personally I think both the Wilson and the Kharma's are weak choices at this price point and if they are so tricky to setup, you can forget it in your room. Also the Focal speakers are designed for near-field listening so you can cozy up to them to further eliminate room effects.

If you're looking for sonic value for $20K, you may want to look elsewhere, although pride of ownership is very high for both these models, the fact is an ATC Anniversary 100's can put the smackdown on Maxx's and Midi Exquisites at $26K (ie high value, but no braggin' rights), you may want to consider the price of entry to the Kharma/ Wilson club and what you're paying for. Have to remember Focal tioxid tweeters are $20 and the Accuton/Scan speak mids are $175. So what are you paying for really?

Well I guess that's off topic enough to make some people angry at me. But buying difficult speakers and placing them in a difficult room seems like a difficult time to get "musical" results.

What do you think?

Have to remember Focal tioxid tweeters are $20 and the Accuton/Scan speak mids are $175. So what are you paying for really

I'm not contesting the point you're making & I second the usefulness of Focal's built-in DSP.
However the point about pricing applies all around; while the ceramic drivers alluded to are slightly more expensive than you note, the Focal "W" driver are similarly priced. For that matter, the standard ATC drivers are only slightly more costly. The beryllium tweet OTOH, is VERY expensive (or was -- focal doesn't seem to want retail sales anymore).
But, it's good to ask ourselves the last question every now & then: "What are we paying for?" The design (choice of units, xover, cabinet design) & box maybe? When a manufacturer hits upon a "good sounding" design, the price escalades fast regardless of component cost maybe?

Can anyone expand the topic and tell me if you have experience with Kharma vs. Sonus Faber (Stradivari or Amati?) I'm in the process of deciding between those speakers, and am afraid I will lose a degree of musicality if I go for Kharma (midi exquisite) vs Stradivari.

T GregM

"However the point about pricing applies all around; while the ceramic drivers alluded to are slightly more expensive than you note, the Focal "W" driver are similarly priced. For that matter, the standard ATC drivers are only slightly more costly. The beryllium tweet OTOH, is VERY expensive (or was -- focal doesn't seem to want retail sales anymore)."

Well if you buy 50pcs. (like I have in the US, 178.95ea but maybe I got as real good deal cause if remember $220 might be the regualr number.)
but the real point was the SM8's are approx. $7500/pr and the ATC's which are $4K more than the WP7's and in a whole other class of performance with amplification built-in. I really didn't want to use the ATC's directly in comparison to the speakers listed 'cause I'm a dealer. But since no one is a Focal Dealer, I could express myself more freely.

I realize that driver cost is not the clearest indicator of the final price especially when considering the incredibly expensive boxes the WP7 and Kharma's use. But in my educated opinion, Kharma's import arrangement and limited production is likely their biggest handicap in their final pricing and I believe the Wilson simply charges more because they are no longer a performance product but a prestige lifestyle product. A position cleared for them by excellent marketing and consistently good products from the known beginning of high end audio as a real industry.

Focal, and other manufacturers pulling of the cutting edge driver technology off the DIY shelf will begin to create a gap between "factory" teams and independents. I believe it already has as the once "build great drivers but not good speakers" comment has faded from the forum of conversation and the performance of Companies like DALI reflects the improvement a manufacturer can make when closely helping one of their "factory teams" perfect a focused product based on a focused platform concept. But then I go on.

Focal doesn't want to share its technology with the market they prefer to sell their own speakers at retail as every "basement/DIY" manufacturer" who uses Focal drivers as amarketing/status symbol and "steals" a sale or a potential dealer from the real McCoy is hindering market growth and possibly creating a negative perception about the technology. As the tioxid tweeter is not "bright", but many "sub-standard" implementations of it is. Fact is what makes Kharma's edgy and slightly bright at times is the Accuton driver's breakup peak at 4-6khz not the tweeter. So the tweeter is victim of misplaced blame. That peak is the 2nd edge of the sword of using their drivers. I know a guy who sold his Grand Ceramiques because this was not understood, thus his surrounding "experts" kept trying correct a tweeter problem not a midrange one. :(

Treemed67;

Sonus Faber, About as technically imperfect expensive speaker you can buy. Undoubtably gorgeous and built with an extraordinary amount of TLC. The use of the word musicallity to me has become an excuse for imperfection but still sounds good, on some material.

Amati struggles against $4000 loudspeakers not good $80,0000 loudspeakers.