Nightmare selling to Canada

Markphd, what exactly are you talking about? What are you referring to as illegal? A buyer asking a seller to insure the item for less? A seller insuring the item for less? Or both?

Like I said, there should be a difference between declared value and insured value, but I don't believe anyone including the shipping companies do much to separate the two, so the insured value ends up reflecting declared value. The shipping companies will tell you that it's illegal to insure it for more than what your product is worth because you might end up cheating the shipping company, but it's not illegal to not buy enough insurance. If I'm shipping an item that is worth $5000 to me and my buyer, I can see how it's illegal for me to declare it to be anything less, but it doesn't make sense for me to go to jail because I refuse to pay $5000 worth of insurance or for my buyer to go to jail because he refuses to pay. That cannot possibly be a crime (again the bigger problem is that the insured value is treated as the declared value). In Canada, it is illegal to drive a car that does not have insurance, but we are not required to purchase extra insurance just like we are not required to purchase extra home insurance.

And lets not forget that there's no law or official pricebook governing the price structure of used audio gear. A product can be priced at whatever amount the seller whiches to sell it at. Perhaps you're not telling us something about your friend and what he did that may help explain why the police went to his place. At the very least, since it's HIS products that got confiscated, he's not the seller, and as it should be, if it's the buyer who requests the seller to insure the item for less, the seller should not be responsible for anything other than the insured value including customs and duties. I think almost everyone here would agree with me that this is the accepted norm.

Markphd,
I have to agree that it is wise to pay all applicable taxes when you buy an item new from a dealer, especially if you expect warranty and all else that being a new owner might entail. A transaction involving a used piece between two private persons is a little different and here I think there can be a lot of subjective leeway in how much the item is valuated for tax purposes.

Let's say you lent an amp to a friend who brought it with him Stateside for grad school. A year later, he decides to send it back to you in Canada. Surely you don't feel that any taxes should be paid? Although no money exchanged hands here, I see this as being analogous to a private transaction for a used product. I feel this is consonant with the spirit of the GST although I admit I don't know what the letter of the law is here.

Markphd These are your words "I had the RCMP show up at the door of a friend of mine once." You should be carefull in how you say things, it sounds like you told the RCMP.

I've bought most of my current gear from the States and have not experienced any nightmares, unless you count the taxes, duties and/or brokerage fees. :-)

I think Markphd was referring to the legality or lack thereof of purposely misdeclaring the value for Customs purposes. Insurance fraud is a totally separate issue. Customs couldn't care less what one declares in terms of insured value, it is, as correctly pointed out, a matter between buyer, seller and the shipping company. Declared value on the other hand is a bit more sticky insofar as Customs law is applicable. If you get caught undervaluing, you must pay the applicable Customs duties and Goods & Services Tax (GST, which help to fund things like public health care, the military and bridges) on the correct value (as determined by those wily Customs agents, with reference to the Harmonised Code in use in most nations around the globe), plus a penalty (again as sanctioned by Customs law) and interest on amounts overdue. Usually, the importer gets the bill, since they are responsible for bringing the item into the country. (And, yes, I used to work for Customs). ;-)

Markphd may have a perfectly good reason for playing it squeaky clean, but that's not much of a reason to start wailing on him.

Kleech, when taking a relatively high value electronic item out of Canada into another country, one should stop at the nearest Customs office to obtain the appropriate document for the item indicating that it was bought in Canada and will be brought back at some point (I forget the correct term or doc #). It indicates what the item is and its worth and when returning to Canada, you present the doc to Customs in order to bring it back without paying any duties or taxes. Otherwise, they can't know whether it was purchased abroad and should be subject to duties/taxes. Smart thing to do that is not widely known, especially for those taking an expensive camera on vacation or laptop on business travel.

Just my 2 cents (3 cents US).

Max

Hey, hey, it was all right until a camera or a laptop were mentioned. With all the due respect to the rules, how do you, guys, imagine going to Customs office EVERY TIME you travel, for such a indispensable stuff like camera or laptop??? Should I consider moving closer to the Customs offices location?
You know, in Israel with its instable economics (yeah, they say it's getting better) yet recently there was a law demanding to register any camera or laptop in the Customs before travelling, and though the office was located in the aeroport, it was definitely not a pleasure. Now, this rule is cancelled as *outrageous*. Cameras and laptops are excluded from the list they're checking, unless they're new, just because no one travels without them, which puts a substantial overhead both on the customs and travellers.
Please, don't tell me such a thing is still alive and well in Canada!