The problem seems to be double sided as you stated, but it is probably one sided if you think of what is involved from your standpoint. The dealer has what he/she wants to sell at the price they wish to sell at. You have your hard earned money. This is your decision to do with your money as you see fit, hence the problem is all yours not theirs (the dealers). Sooner or later dealers will need to try to understand and compete in global market. That might include competing with used prices over the Internet. I tried mightily to get my local dealer to come down from $3950 with a trade ($500 credit subtracted from $4450 MSRP plus tax) on a new pair of Thiel CS 3.6s (a 10 year old design mind you) to "just" $3500 with trade for a pair of speakers I had found used (Audiogon), but under warranty for $2210 with shipping (plus I just sold my CS2s for $450). I did NOT audition the speakers there as I had heard them previously at two other dealers over the years (1992 and 1997)while auditioning amplifiers that I purchased. So...none of the dealer's time was taken up by me. Also the dealer had no product in stock nor would he sell the demo units at my asking price. I DID tell the dealer that I had a better price to work with also. My question is WHY and HOW could I support the dealer price? Furthermore, out of town Thiel dealers were beating the local new price too! In personal economics, there is one major interest...SELF! Also there can not be a deal unless BOTH parties are satisfied. My wife was watching all this...what would she have done if I paid over $2300 more than I had to because I felt sorry for the local dealer? Did I mention major league "buttkicking"? I'm sure dealers all have margin problems, but market determines price. I have two in college so I have margin problems too!If a retailer can not make a profit at the market price no one will be happy, but clearly the product is overpriced BEFORE hitting the retail store. Dealers can always hope a neophyte buyer comes in though... BUT alternatively, if a dealer sells at twice the market price to an ignorant customer isn't that just as bad as me paying twice what I had to pay? Not for the dealer in this case or my hypothetical case... So...back the original problems...to whom does the money belong and what will make that owner the happiest in the long run? Perhaps there can be no mutual satisfaction in the local market at times because we CAN and WILL shop globally while the local dealer steadfastly refuses to acknowledge global price competition. Hopefully, this is not how every local transaction goes...
Retail Buying - Reality Check
Like all of you at some point in time, I caught the Audio and HT bug. I started out at the usual places - Hi Fi Buys, Best Buys, etc. and moved on to the niche, locally owned hi end audio and HT boutiques. There I met generally more knowledgeable salesmen (no women yet). I also started doing my homework out on the web and came upon great sites like Audiogon and AVS Forum to name a few.
Your knowledge and experience has been invaluable to me. Unfettered by the product lines you have to sell, you provide a far more level playing field of unbiased opinion.
Here's my dilemma: I am a small business owner myself, and I value local market presence and customer relations. I'm even willing to pay a small premium for this intangible. However, when the quotes came back from 3 different retailers in Atlanta ($65 -80k), they were all for MSRP plus tax plus design install and misc. such as clips and straps ($250-$500 worth!)
Now most of the hi end equipment today has "burn in" periods of several to hundreds of hours before peak operating performance is obtained. So, buying new at full MSRP also meant getting inferior performance for the necessary burn times. So no big benefit (except some warranties) to buy new.
By purchasing from sellers on sites like Audiogon, and purchasing nearly new or sometimes new products, I have saved $16,000 plus $1,000 in sales taxes on approximately $50,000 of my quoted MSRP prices. I'm not done yet. I also have the flexibility of buying the exact product line I want, not just what my store has to offer. There is great pressure in the retail setting to go "one stop shopping" at your store of choice.
I understand these stores need to make a profit. However, 50% markups on items that they don't keep in stock and have to special order, seems out of line to me.
Caveat emptor is certainly a key consideration in on-line purchasing, but to date, through careful checking of prior seller transactions, prudent payment techniques and telephone conversations with the seller to allow me to make some kind of character call, I have had nothing but outstanding, as promised transactions.
I hired a HT acoustical designer and a certified installer and I couldn't be happier, except for one thing. I still feel a little guilty about not buying from the guy with the storefront who spent time with me. I just wish they'd recognize where they do and don't add value and charge accordingly.
Anyway thanks guys, for the great education and advice you've provided me.
What say you?
Your knowledge and experience has been invaluable to me. Unfettered by the product lines you have to sell, you provide a far more level playing field of unbiased opinion.
Here's my dilemma: I am a small business owner myself, and I value local market presence and customer relations. I'm even willing to pay a small premium for this intangible. However, when the quotes came back from 3 different retailers in Atlanta ($65 -80k), they were all for MSRP plus tax plus design install and misc. such as clips and straps ($250-$500 worth!)
Now most of the hi end equipment today has "burn in" periods of several to hundreds of hours before peak operating performance is obtained. So, buying new at full MSRP also meant getting inferior performance for the necessary burn times. So no big benefit (except some warranties) to buy new.
By purchasing from sellers on sites like Audiogon, and purchasing nearly new or sometimes new products, I have saved $16,000 plus $1,000 in sales taxes on approximately $50,000 of my quoted MSRP prices. I'm not done yet. I also have the flexibility of buying the exact product line I want, not just what my store has to offer. There is great pressure in the retail setting to go "one stop shopping" at your store of choice.
I understand these stores need to make a profit. However, 50% markups on items that they don't keep in stock and have to special order, seems out of line to me.
Caveat emptor is certainly a key consideration in on-line purchasing, but to date, through careful checking of prior seller transactions, prudent payment techniques and telephone conversations with the seller to allow me to make some kind of character call, I have had nothing but outstanding, as promised transactions.
I hired a HT acoustical designer and a certified installer and I couldn't be happier, except for one thing. I still feel a little guilty about not buying from the guy with the storefront who spent time with me. I just wish they'd recognize where they do and don't add value and charge accordingly.
Anyway thanks guys, for the great education and advice you've provided me.
What say you?
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- 50 posts total
- 50 posts total