Tenor Hybrid v. VTL MB-450 Sig.

KevinKwann as a Merlin owner, I agree that Merlin is excellent at dynamic contrasts but would further say the Sound Labs EXCEL at low level dynamic contrasts of musical instruments to a greater extent, I haven't heard it done better by any speaker. The Merlins are among the best I have heard in this respect and along with their tonal balance it is one of their great virtues. These speakers present very refined, defined pitch at low levels. I've heard some quite amazing bass from the VSM although it requires a a powerful amp with plenty of control to realize it.

So far as BIG dynamics, larger speakers are better at capturing this providing you have a room and it is treated properly but this doesn't always equate to real so much as more visceral, depends on your musical priorities I suppose. Furthermore, the VSM's are MUCH better suited to a small to medium sized room. Much more so than a large system IMHO. I ain't gonna argue with Bob Crump, I respect his hearing although I have never met him. His cables tell me a lot about how he hears and he also has the SoundLabs, not a bad choice.

Jim2, I like a larger presentation than the Merlins will allow, but have friend locally that had the Merlins set up with some old Entec woofers that did just about everything correctly as the size of the presentation was life sized, about 30% larger than using just the Merlins.....As far as amps go I would go with the Berning or Joule OTLs and buy some subwoofers and still have money left over from the 20K or keep the VTLs and buy some JM labs......JM will get the weight and size of a piano correct......

I used the Sound Lab M-1s at CES 2003 with my home system and noted they were cleaner than my Rockports and were definitely full range and cut a deal with Roger West as he wanted a preamp.......If I can get the focus and immediacy out of the Sound Labs here then I will replace the Rockports and if not I will keep both.....Unfortunately, nothing is perfect on an overall basis as Kenkwann points out as few speakers get the leading edge right.......You pick your poison and live with it for a while.......

i may as well chime in here:

as a former owner of VSM-Ms and good friend of rcrump, he heard my merlin-based setup many times and saw it evolve from decent to good to great. but the inherent limitations of the design remain---and that is what he took issue with, and incidentally that is why i sold them. they are, after all, a 2-way, and cannot do BIG (and venue = big) properly. ---also, they don't like loud volumes, big listening rooms, or listeners above axis. within these constraints, they're wonderful. outside, and you get the suggestion for different speakers (with their own new limitations).

rest assured that my new SLs are not perfect, and there's many aspects of the merlins that i'd prefer over the SLs, they were that good (if ever i needed another 2-way, i'd buy merlins no question). but the SLs full range presentation and reproductive ease (with the right amp---no small chore finding it) are a nice change from the limits i associated with the merlins.

i agree with bob that a change in amp will not get venue from the merlins. a sub will. i know--i did this w/ entec LF20s and it filled in the bottom nicely. and like bob, i have to question the logic of trading one world-class amp for another...my guess is there's other system problems that would need addressed before upgrading a top 10 amp to another top 10 amp.

rhyno

Rhyno, I have to respectfully disagree with your statement that Merlins don't get venue. This goes back to the issue of room size. I have heard some quite large systems myself including Infinity IRS 5's and the big Genesis system that get venue about as right as it can be. The VSM's do this but maybe not in a large room? Room size can't be overlooked. Why add a subwoofer to the mix at the expense of losing the coherence of the VSM? This is their point and appeal. Subs don't cut the cake. If you are going to mate a sub with a speaker such as the VSM I would agree, you're better off going with a larger system.

Venue information the Merlins get just fine........Size of presentation they don't achieve as the size of the presentation grows 30% when woofers are added.....Reason I no longer use subwoofers is they don't match with my amps in the high pass as you intimated can happen.....Someone once said "If you ain't got no bass, then you ain't got no space" and that is what Ryan was referring to, size of presentation, not venue information, but they are interrelated....Lots of speakers out there in the 20K range that will achieve a life sized presentation with the VTL450s and the reason I suggested another tact in the first place.......If I had a small room the Merlins would be on my short list of possibilities........I wish Merlin would finally get around to doing a subwoofer/crossover as Bobby has been talking about it now for well over five years......