high-end vs. ultra high-end amplifiers

Nice to know you are not falling prey to market segmenting, to science, to bang-for-the-buck, to dinking-by-the-label, to the great pastime of record book thinking, to one-upmanship, to attempting to isolate one component in a chain and declaring it superior in every way to all others of its type, to negative bias against larger established companies, to positive bias in favour of small cottage industry builders, to audio jewellery, to equating everything that goes into a product with mo' better sound, to assuming everyone will just go along with your premise, to soliciting answers from the horses mouth (they should tell you they are smarter, more honest, have better hearing and more taste than any other builder, that they alone can defy physics and that they have arcane knowledge not possessed by other manufacturers and that you are in good hands with Allstate) and to being so earnest in wanting to know what in the physical world they do to make the sound so good. This question basically will have the folks lining up on either side of the great divide we have all come to know and love: magic vs. science, objective vs. subjective, you know. Look, if you think, hear and feel in your heart that any product, be it a power amp, preamp, source, cable or speaker, or any tweak, be it bubblegum, bubble pack, cones, spheres, etc, sound better, don't ask any further questions. You have found IT, and once you have found IT, everything else becomes irrelevant, especially explanations having to do with the physical world. I second the posters who have basically asked that you go ever your premise first. And thank TWL for, yet again, proving that the mental sampling rate of non-believers in the GREAT SUBJECTIVE AUDIOPHILE THING is too low. A couple of questions before I go: how high can prices go? How many times can the word "ULTRA" be added as a prefix to a newly established market segment in order to pick the pockets of the insecure?

I believe Dazzdax to be very perceptive in his observations. Although I may or may not agree with his list. But the list could certainly be expanded to include other brand names.

I also believe Dazzdax was accurate when he limited his observation only to amplifiers. If, in fact, that was his intention.

An amplifier must do so much so right. This is why I believe the amplifier, good or bad, is the key to any system. And this is why I believe a good amplifier can compensate to a good extent for a bad pair of speakers. But a good pair of speakers can never compensate for a bad amplifier.

To answer Dazzdax' question I could only guess that it may have to do with marketing/advertising dollars or commercialism in general, manufacturer's listening preferences, or design flaws with over-compensation, or perhaps even irresponsible jouralism.

There are some recent reviews from Stereophile and TAS on the Halcro amplifiers being the best amplifiers out there. One reviewer thinks perhaps a new Class A+ category should be created for it. Whether these are the best or not I do not know.

But the waxing of accolades and enthusiasm over the sonics and measurements of the Halcro's by these reviewers should be the norm for every one of the amp's on Dazzdax's list and more, rather than the exception. Especially for what some of these manufacturers are charging or overcharging.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the point that Dazzdax is trying to make.

And yes, in the audio world so much is so subjective. But still, that is no excuse for relativism to win out over reality.

-IMO

You call Mark Levinson,Krell,Spectral, and Bryston the big boys. Well Boulder,FM Acoustics,and Accuphase are not little and by no means cheap!

I think Stehno joins my thinking...
Philefreak: no, the companies you mention (bar Accuphase) ARE little -- probably becaue they choose to be so.
Warrenh... give your excellent (IMO) machine & its manufacturer a break. Bernard-Andre did NOT produce it to kill others -- just to play music well, in an APPROPRIATE surrounding (i.e. driving the right load).

Pbb's mental sampling rate, as portayed in the latest post, is too high for me to understand the accompanying argumentation.

Surely, not all higher priced equipment is a scam; and anyway, we're not obliged to purchase it even if the price draws our attention to it. Cheers

Buy a Rogue Magnum or Atma Sphere MK-60II.
Both are killer amps and stand up well to products at 2/3 times the price.
A certin dealer in Toronto would not carry the Rogue. It would have killed his 10k+ amp business. Those where his exact words.