Jadis amplifiers: rolled off treble?

Hi folks (and Jadis aficionados out there), tell me the truth please: do Jadis amplifiers have rolled off treble? Each time I'm listening to one I have this impression. The sound might be glorious (like all Jadis) but... doesn't it sound darker than in real life? Because of this presumed rolled off treble some CD's sound better and overall music sound more pleasant, more like... Jadis.

Not trying to sound cavalier but if the music sounds more pleasant then who cares if the amps are rolled off? I have 3 of their amps and what they all do that I love is midrange. Rich, lush, warm midrange.
Chris, which one have you heard?

I don't get this impression, in fact, the opposite, but not in a harsh or bright/shrill way. The words I most use to describe Jadis are romantic, sweet, and musical (probably more of these three than it should be), they're also pretty upfront and engaging. But, as with anything else, with the right tubes, ancillaries, and room, I don't doubt your assertion that things sound dark.
Trelja, I have heard the JA 200 and the DA 88 Signature.

Loki, do you think they sound rolled off in the treble? My ears say: yes.

Chris, are you using one with your sound labs? If so, it would explain the high freq. roll off. A lot of tube amps without a tertiary feedback winding will roll off the highs. I agree with Loki1957, but not on electrostats. 'Stats need the power in the highs, not the lows. For your Soundlabs, try a Mac 275 or and EAR 509 or the new Cary that uses 4 kt88's as all of them have the feedback taken off of a third winding which exhibits less phase issues from the capacitive load presented by the electrostatic speakers. Those amps may not have the power you need, but work fine on a Quad 63/988/2908 ect. I am sure that there are others out there. To put into perspective, my EAR 509 (100 w) just cruises along with the Quads, yet the Quads bring my ARC D 250 to it's knees (250 w). I haven't tried the EAR 509 on the A-3's as of yet as I have a repair issue needing to be dealt with. Presently I am using Parasound JC-1's. I have a Defy 7 that is just magical (although tilted towards the mids) on cone speakers.

Ps: Sorry for not having gotten back to you before. I've been slammed at work, and income taxes were just due here in the states- ugh... Feel free to email me about your A-1's as I have just recently purchased a set of A-3's.

Yes Jadis amplifiers sounds nice & romantic but has nothing to do with REAL SOUND !
it is simply romantic sound and that is all.
Yes it is on the warm side, you like it or you do not like it.
CJ is lesser warm in sound, but has another kind of golden fluid stereo typed coloured non natural sound als not found in real live music.
The accurate amplifier should show romantic emotions in an accurate uncoloured breathing way, this is only up to the very very top end of solid state power-amps(very expensive)
Not the JA 500.

It is the most realistic linear sounding amp in my stable. It had the Da Hong input stage mod, perhaps this removed some of the above mentioned colorations.

I remember reading HP and he thought the 500 was the more "detailed" amp than the 200 or 80. I find the 500 to breath life into the music without adding any coloration.

There is no top end roll off with the 500.


If you are looking for reality and not tube warmth I suggest the 500.

unless you have taken a spectral analyzer to a concert hall, you have no idea whether high frequencies are attenuated. depending upon your location, high frequencies will be attenuated.

an amplifier which does have a roll off, say atstarting at 200 hz, sounds more natural, relative to a rear location in a concert hall, than a so-called "flat" frequency response.

i would prefer to be able to enjoy the music than suffer through poor recordings.

the issue of "reality" will never be resolved. this subject frequently generates disagreements.

what is more important is finding soime equilibrium between resolution and comfort. each one of us has an optimal level of complexity and intensity that is preferred. if we can can
come close to this ideal, selling equipment and concern about "roll off" will be superfluous.
Good point. May I suggest reading the online TAS review of the LAT 1000 speaker http://www.avguide.com/products/product-3830/ ? The LAT 1000 is also considered by many people a rolled-of speaker.
You're certainly dealing with two incredible products there, Chris.

Others can talk about the potential interaction with the SoundLabs speakers if they are what you are pairing them with. The only thing I can really add is that cabling and the room (most importnatly) are definitely going to figure into things, and a bit of tube rolling may prove enough to change your mind.

I'm not sure what tubes you ran in the JA200, but the DA88S uses KT88, which I find dark/recessed in the mids compared to EL34 tubes. In my experience, Jadis amps sound their best, by far, with EL34 tubes, though you then have to be far more careful in terms of getting the driver tubes right in order to produce the proper low frequency response, which the Jadis are more than capable of.

Peter, did you hear the JA500 with and without the Da Hong modifications? Removing it from my DA60 made all of the difference in the world in my situation. Others have corresponded with me over the years to echo that sentiment. In fact, it was the on the recommendation of a friend that I had my amp set back to "stock", and I can't thank him enough for the performance that wrought.
I have heard lots of Jadis gear and never felt like the top end was rolled off. Natural, yes; rolled off, no.

Like any tube amps - and especially so for those without feedback - the speaker/amp interaction is everything. Choose the wrong speaker and you will never know what the amp can do.

Trelya, I own Soundlabs but I don't own Jadis amplifier. The Jadis JA 200 is one of the two Jadis amplifiers I have auditioned, the other is the Jadis DA 88 Signature. I'm contemplating to mate a Jadis amp with the Soundlabs but I haven't made a decision yet. What I would like to have is an amp that is more forward sounding with tube like midrange (bloom), smooth and silky (and perhaps also a touch rolled off) treble and excellent resolution of detail. I myself prefer solid state design.

oops ! i made an error in my last post. i meant to say that in the concert hall, there may be a roll off beginning at 2000 hz, rather than 200 hz. the distance from the listener to the stage and the presence of hundreds or perhaps more than one thousand bodies in front of a an audience member can account for a reduction in energy in the treble region.
I have the 88S and tried it with Avalon speakers and quads. I used a spectral analyser and the frequency resposne is similar to other SS amps I ahve used.
hi chris:

if you reduce treble energy, you will lose resolution. it is necessary to decide which is more important, a pleasant, euphonic sound, or resolution.

regarding jadis products, i have heard the defy 7 mk 1 and the ja 80. i enjoy listening to them because, they can be very forgiving of less than ideal recordings.
"i enjoy listening to them because, they can be very forgiving of less than ideal recordings." I agree completely, Mrtennis.

My DA60 is difficult to describe, as I can't really call it sweet or euphonic, but it seems to always make the music sound great. I realize that isn't "accurate", whatever "accurate" is, but one is left enjoying the music to the point of not caring.

Going back to the original question of the thread, I thought about some of the recordings played over the year, and despite the above comment about making even bad recordings sound good, I've most probably been able to dig more of the treble out with my Jadis amps (Orchestra Reference, DA30, and DA60) than any other amp I've tried. Cymbals can be majestic, but, flute, piccolo, triangles, etc. come through in a way that I think I have yet to hear eclipsed. The only amp I can think of to put in the same conversation is the Consonance Cyber 300B PSE (none of our other amps approach this) that I represent as the importer/distributor.

Chris, one other thing I can say is that in my experience, a Jadis is more reflective of its output and driver tubes than any other tube amplifier I've been around. It gives you a tremendous amount of power in terms of altering the sound, but you have to really work through a lot of combinations to find the ideal match for you - mine is Sylvania 5751 Triple Mica Black Plate drivers in the 12AX7 driver position, with JJ E34L output tubes. For whatever reason, I've found the preamplifier tubes don't yield nearly the same level of impact.
Previously owned Ja30´s and se300b and listened ja-80´s and ja-200´s.
IMHO all the Jadis with pentodes sounds rolled off on the top in comparison with the triode based ones.
In a direct comparison between a ja-80 and a cary AE805 the highs of the jadis appeared anemic .
On the other hand the jadis sound is outstanding and no matter the roll of is real or not , just listen and enjoy it.
I owned Jadis JA-80s for many years. Yes, I beleieve that they rolled off in the highs a little (this was the old, 1990 version, and I used Philips 6550s and Gold Lion KT 88s in them with Telefunken phase splitter and driver tubes), but I didn't care at all, as they got the midrange right and I believe most recordings to be a bit brighter than what I hear in the concert hall anyway, probably due to what Mr Tennis points out. I agree with the poster above about the 500s (even without the Da Hong mods, though they certainly do get rid of the classic tube sound), they were a different animal from the lower powered JA monoblock series; and Joe (Trelja) is quite familar with the sound of the newer models and you can count on his observations to be accurate.

In general, I would say that you don't buy a Jadis piece of equipment for aural thrills or necessarily to accurately reproduce everything that it is fed, you buy it because of the musical enjoyment it brings you. There are many pieces of equipment out there that will outperform it from a technical standpoint, but there are few that can match it from the standpoint of conveying the music (especially classical and acoustic music).
I have a friend who owned a pair of Jadis JA-80s in 1990's. He was an unsurpassed tube and circuit expert who found what he believed to be four engineering errors in the 80's that he corrected. The resulting sound was so impacting I continue to recall its beauty many years removed.