Problems getting the best out of my Berning


Hello fellow Agoners,

I beckon for help from experienced users of the Berning ZH270! I just received mine new a week ago, and although it is an incredible amp, it is not meeting my expectations. HELP!

First the good news:

This is the fastest amp I have ever head, and it has virtually no noise floor. I am truly impressed with these aspects. It handles most everything with ease and clarity.

Now my system:

Proac 2.5 loudspeakers
Cary CD308 and Arcam FMJ CD23
Kimber PBJ Interconnnects
Audioquest Type 4 cables

(I've also used Dynaudio Audience 72's and all MIT cables, and Triangle Titus + Audioquest Slate cables and PBJ IC's).

OK - now to the problem:

On all three setups mentioned above, the amp seems strongly biased towards the midrange and upper midrange, resulting in a fatiguing presention. There is a significant decrease in bass (not detail, but the actual movement of air) from the other amps I have used for comparison (Classe CAP 101, Pass Aleph 3, Adcom GFA 5400). While the detail and fastness are truly amazing, the midrange emphasis is getting the worst of me!

I've spoken with David Berning and Frank S (FS Audio.com) and both encourage some tweaking to get rid of this perceived (psycho?) acoustic bias. Frank is going to send me some interconnects to try. David mentioned that others have changed the tubes. He doubts anything is wrong with the amp.

Is this all in my head, or have others had similar problems and needed to make adjustments to get it right? While all my other amps are currently SS, I have trouble believing that this is the "tube sound" (I've heard other tube amps). Other threads mention system tweaking to get rid of a "glare" with the ZH270, changing tubes, sensitivity to cabling. My perception of the sound is pretty strong - currently I like my Aleph 3 a whole lot more with the existing setup.

I'm willing to put some time and money into making this work - because in all other respects, this is an absolutely amazing amp. Perhaps it doesn't suit my ear - but I want the advantages of this amp without the disadvantages I just mentioned. Please - suggestions on what to do from all you experienced Berning fans... so many high commendations cannot be that far off (right?).
peter_s
October 10th Update!

Hello to all you helpful Berning owners! Well, it's been a couple of weeks and here is what I have to report.

1) I took the unit to an electronics expert person who just happens to live in Flagstaff (used to work at UC Santa Barbara), and he took it through some bench testing. The results were interesting, much of which above me. But the tubes were working fine.

2) I have kept the amp on for over 100 hours, and the break-in has improved the bass response to that of (or near that of) my other amps: Pass Aleph 3 and ARC VT100-mk2. Still dominant in the midrange though, and a bit fatiguing.

3) Alan B (see posts above) lent me a quad of Cryo'd Sylvania output tubes, and I popped them in and listened today. There was a significant improvement. The bass got more detailed and stronger. Overall detail increased, openess increased, and soundstage improved. Despite a ground problem with my Rogue 66 preamp, the noise floor still seemed way, way down there! Listening to Nora Jone's "Come Away With Me", the cymbal brushes lost a bit of excess metalic nature and became more "brushy". There was a reduction of the midrange emphasis, but it is still a bit there to my perception. Now at the point where I could see adjusting to it, as a different sound approach.

4) I'm away for four days vacation, but when I get back, I will be doing more listening comparisons between the amps. A quick impression now: while the Pass sounds flatter than the Berning, the Berning sounds clearer (e.g. clearer vocals and kick drum). Anyhow, I'll also be working with system synergy. Newly arriving are a pair of Cardas Neutral reference biwire speaker cables, two Neutral Reference interconnects, a Golden Cross interconnect, and some Harmonic Tech interconnects. All are on loan in order to work with the synergy. I will keep y'all informed.

5) I'm really wondering whether I should be trying different input tubes, while I'm trying to make this decision. Any advise? Where to get them...

Thanks All. Peter
Peter, your perceptions of the effects of the cryo'd tubes match mine perfectly. I also have cryo'd NOS input tubes. I'm posting from work, so off the top of my head I can't remember the exact designation of them--G.E. 5 star platinum and Brimar Black Plates? I'm sure that the other berning owners will correct me. Anyhow, I got them from Tubeworld. If you contact him, the guy at Tubeworld (Brendan?) knows exactly what you want because apparently all Berning owners go for the exact same set of tubes. They were a little pricey, but as far as I know that is the only source. In my opinion, and I'm not sure that this opinion is shared by the other Berning owners, the cryo'd 6Jn6's made more of an impact. However, I have to say that at the time I was changing other system components too--interconnect, CD player--so I don't have a very good baseline to compare them to.
Peter, check out my 2nd 9/26 post it gives the tube set. I certainly hope matters improve with the amp. I really don't think the inputs will change any of your general perceptions. Since you have had the tubes checked and they are fine my guess is you have either a break-in issue or a serious synergy problem. What you are describing I can't remotely attribute to this amplifier. It is the antithesis of fatiguing or tonally out of balance, especially with an 8 ohm load like the Pro-acs. I am also familiar with the sonic characteristics of the ARC and Pass amps you speak of although not in my system nor in yours ;^).
Hi,

I had quite a lot of set up problems in the beginning. I don't think it is tubes, however the amp does sound even better with better tubes. I would carefully read the operations manual again to make certain you haven't missed anything silly (like I did), and then I would look to cable synergy as the culprit. I was very close to sending mine back, but I am very glad I stuck with it, as it is now the heart and soul of my system. I have never heard the SS amps you own, and it is true the ZH may never equal them in bass slam, but it certainly should not sound as if the mids are overwhelming the bass. In fact it is a bass demon in my experience.

gb
It takes getting use to, for sure, the amp really has no sonic signature per say, it's most timber correct, as Bobby from Merlin will attest to.

So it really does not smoothen, brighten, add bass or anything, you get exactly what you give it, that really needs getting use to.