D38s will be way too big for a 13x10 room IMO. However I was highly impressed with those speakers and figure I may have a pair in my future. They were simply sublime with CJ's latest electronics.
My feeling about ARC gear is apparently similar to yours - they can be uninvolving with the wrong speakers.
I would recommend you check out JM Lab Electras/Utopia Bes as well - they are directional enough to not induce too many room colorations in a smaller room and yet have remarkable soundstaging capability with plenty of real life and emotion to make you fall in love again. Good luck!
the proac's are great, but with wilson b discoveries you are there.
With a similar setup to yours (LS25mk2, VS110, PH3, Wavelength Cosecant) I'm running Totem Hawks and will soon be moving up the line to Wind or Shaman. I've heard numerous pairs of Proacs and the Totems are very very similar but priced much better (probably due to NAFTA - no duty on Canadian speakers). They work wonderfully with ARC gear - very tight and fluid.
If you like proac sound, you likely wont like the cooler and leaner WB sound. Go back to Proac. But the point is that itt would be tricky. D38 is fairly big loudspeaker. But, a warmer, nicer more musical sound than the WB.
"thinner" that is the perfect word for what I feel I am lacking. I think my WB sound better than my Proac studio 250's but there is an overwhelming charechter of the speaker that is differnt. "thinner" that's it.
Oh, my dream is to replace one day my Wilson Benesch Act One with a Proac Response 4 or D80. Wilson is an OK speaker, and with tubes you could get fairly nice soundprint. But Proac to my ears is the music itself. Of course, I think, synergy between loudspeaker and amplifier is very important. Actually, I heard the D25 with AudioResearch pre-power combo (plus meridian transport and wadia32 dac): that system was ok, but nowhere as magic as bigger proacs with naim or ear electronics. I think, that my actone-aronov combo was way better compared to that. But this is a hobby, where personal taste is the ultimate judge.
I run Proac 3.8's in a 13X24'room with vaulted ceilings. No problems whatsoever! I've also had the D38's in this room and did not like them as much. The D38s needed a little more break in time however they were just fine in the room.
I used to have Proac 1.5's and the smaller ones and although excellent sounding just don't give you the realism of a larger (ie taller) speaker. The height of the tweeter may have something to do with this as the 3.8's are quite a bit above ear level.
My understanding is the D38 are voiced more nuetrally than the 3.8s - liking one may not mean liking the other.
I heard the WB compared with the Proac D25. The Proac D25 simply did not impress me, and I own an older and beloved pair of Proac Response 3.5's. I wanted to like the D25 but the WB won that contest. I was not able to compare to a D38 as the shop didn't have any.
I am tempted to upgrade my Proac Response 3.5's to 3.8's at some point in the future. I am just not sure if the new D series has the magic that I've heard in the older Response series. Gary
It's a matter of taste. I personally love the warm detailed sound of Proac. I borrowed a pair of discoveries and too found them slightly cold / thin but if anything i think accurate is the term i would use. Who cares if a speaker is neutral. I want a forgiving speaker so that i can enjoy the music not the production technique! I found myself trying to voice the Benech with cables, mains conditioners etc but to no avail. I think you either like the sound or you dont. Ive owned D15's, D25's and D38's in my time and can honestly say that the 38 is a speaker for life! Ive actually had the pleasure of hearing the D100's with Gryphon gear. I can quite honestly say this massive hulk of a speaker completely dissapeared from the room, it had an electrostatic presence that quite frankly made each guitar strum going from one end of the room to the other, and made me blink a lot, Awesome! hair standing on the back of the neck material.
Id say that the D25's are fairly unlike the rest of the range though. They are absolutely 'magical' for the money with certain types of music (non-electronic) and in my opinion better the Living Voice OBX range. The D38 is the first Proac step into hi-end, 'we only sell a few of these a year territory' and i reckon they spend ages with each pair. my advice , spend the money on the speaker , not the carbon fibre side cheeks and fancy pants plinth. buy a speaker with true sparkle, the D38.
It will be a long time before you upgrade! Currently running a BOW technologies / Shanling / Proac / JPS system. warm, detailed, and voiced to my liking! and under 10K.
id also say that the current drivers in the newer response range seem much faster. Its the first true range where Proac have had strong input into the development of the drivers.
To sum up listen to both, side by side, blind and choose the most enjoyable speaker!
the proac 250 in many ways is a better speaker for all recordings, old and new, than the wb or the d38. more forgiving, yet accurate enough to get the detail.
Jaybo - Did you mean the Proac D25's are way better? I am not aware of a Proac 250.
After all this, I just moved to a smaller space and had to sell my Proac Response 3.5's. I just bought a pair of Cherry D25's. Time for a closer listen, in my room, on my gear! They will be here in another week. I will give a full report later. My new room is 13' x 17'. The speakers will be 3' from back wall, 3' from side walls and firing across the long end of the room. I have high hopes for them.
My gear is:
BAT Vk300x Integrated (NOS Amperex 7308 PQ White labels)
BAT VK-D5 (Same NOS Amperex 7308 PQ's)
Herbie Tube Dampers on all tubes
Acoustic Zen Hologram II speaker cable
Acoustic Zen Silver Ref Balanced IC's
Wireworld Silver Eclipse 5.2 PC's
Running Springs Jaco Power Conditioner
Oyaide XXX AC wall Outlet with Carbon Fiber/Stainless mount
Groberts3, you need to avoid having the speakers equidistant from both the rear and side walls, according to the conventional wisdom.
The WB Discoveries sound like "hifi" to me. They do the audiophile checklist well, but for me, they just aren't satisfying to listen to.
Drubin, Thanks. I never heard that before. I may very well position the speakers a bit different from being exactly 3' from back walls and 3' from side walls. That was a generalization. I'll know soon enough, the D25's were just dropped off by the man in the brown truck! More to come! Gary