What Does It Take To Surpass A SME V?

I own a SME V on a SOTA Cosmos. Images sent to Alfred point it to being a first generation arm. The question becomes do I sell it and replace it, or keep it as is. I dont think it makes much sense to spend money on a rebuild of it. But that is just my personal leaning. 

I haven’t really made any choices. I had an unexpected opportunity come my way at the end of December. A person bought a new Ortofon Verismo and at the twenty hour mark decided to dust the table and ended up removing the diamond from the cantilever. The cartridge is fine otherwise and is at VAS getting ready to receive a new diamond. Once it gets back it will go on the SOTA for an evaluation, and then we will proceed from there.

I find it interesting that arms get suggested that have dimensions that make it impossible to fit on the SOTA. To be honest, a good portion of the thread is not very applicable.

I have not decided on an arm, I am seriously considering doing it this year. But really do not have a short list of candidates. For the time being the V will stay in place. I spent a lot of money the second half of the year by buying a pair of Classe Omega monoblocks, Trinov Amethyst preamp, and found a nice Ortofon T2000 SUT.

As a curiosity though. Who is refreshing V’s?

@rauliruegas 

Well I have images of a cantilever with epoxy only on the tip and pictured of a clean cantilever devoid of epoxy. Cantilever is not fractured. The cantilever is confirmed as synthetic diamond. There is plenty of data to confirm the cartridge is all OEM and missing a diamond. Condition and health of the cartridge is confirmed by inspection. Steve is in the process of installing the diamond at this time. 

@senza  Yeah the thread is pretty well useless. I don't see much value in it either. 

@pindac 

What are you talking about? I wrote nothing about this "theory". You people created it all on your own. 

The original question is what does it take to surpass a SME V? My turntable is a SOTA Cosmos Eclipse. So it's a floating subchassis. I have no need to discuss tonearm and bearing mounting structure because my choice is defined by the 1 inch thick aluminum subchassis. 

What is being written has nothing to do with the original topic. 

@mijostyn 

The SOTA is 2 years old, it's the current generation Eclipse with vacuum hold down. Yes the V is lighter in mass than it's visual appearance suggests, believe it's 9.5 grams. As I recall the V used a silver wiring. 

I have a ZYX 4D also, perhaps I will give it a trial once it gets back from having a new diamond installed. Not sure if the Ortofon Verismo has a compliant enough suspension. 

Perhaps this is a good moment to share a bit of history of how I got here. Back in the late 1990s I decided to do vinyl again, and had good results with an unsuspended high mass table, an early Teres Audio with Eminent Technology II arm. I drifted away from vinyl a number of years and when I came back Teres was no longer available, so I obtained a Galibier Audio Serac and put a 12" Riggle arm on it.

After awhile I had the ability to explore different tables, and I kept the Galibier. I obtained and refreshed a Thorens TD 124 and put another ET II on it, very nice table. I also bought a restored Garrard 401 and put a 12" Project Evolution arm on it.

I sold the idlers to pay for some higher quality speakers, and bought my JBL 4365 with the proceeds. I explored direct drives a bit but was disappointed until I obtained a Technics SP10 MK II. Excellent table. I then bought a Denon D(75 in a VPI plinth with Acos arm. Finally I had a Brinkman Bardo that I put an Audiomods 6 arm on. I also obtained a Well Tempered Reference.

Eventually these tables got sold off. I wanted a reference level table, and when I was a young man the big 4 were Oracle, Linn, VPI, and SOTA. I started to research the SOTA and came to the conclusion that a Cosmos Eclipse was for me. I then sourced a SME V as that was considered one of the finest arms of that time, and I always had a hankering to own one.

I scratched a few other vintage itches there, such as the Koetsu Urushi, the Ortofon MC2000, and MC 3000 II & MC5000, Dynavector, Ikeda 9 Kawami, Shinon Red, and so on.

So this is how I came to owning a SOTA and SME V. I have affirmed that I love the Cosmos, and the MC2000, but the V I am unsure of. I eventually bought a second table. A Scheu Analog Das Laufwerk No 2, which is the company that the original Teres project was inspired by. I enjoy the table and use a pair of Dynavector DV505 arms on it.

So that is the story, and where the SOTA and SME pairing continues or is dissolved remains to be seen. Seems like the 9" Kuzma is a consideration. The Vivid arm is so unusual I am not sure it can be used on this table. Perhaps the V should remain, but I wonder about rewiring it as it is supposed to have a silver sourced wire already. But with the Transfiguration it does sound a bit constrained. Perhaps the Ortofon Verizmo would be different. I even gave consideration to putting the MC2000 on it, but original reviews done by JH reported that this pairing was tried with very unfavorable results. I wonder what makes Origin Live arms a viable consideration, exactly what have they done to raise themselves above the competition, as some of their arms are quite spendy.

Just a combination of my thoughts.

Oh for reference the system is JBL 4365 speakers, a pair of Velodyne HGS 12 subwoofers, Classe Omega monoblock amps, Trinov Amethyst pre-amp, Esoteric E-03 and Grahamm Slee Accession phono stages.

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned that the SME V can sound constrained, and that is a good description I hear with the Transfiguration Audio Proteus. Everything sounds on track in terms of tonal balance, it tracks well, and at the macro level dynamics and output levels are fine, but the sound lacks that bit of life that I want from the system. It is not that the sound is bad, it is very good, I just feel there is a bit more performance that can be had from the analog system. 

Does this mean an arm rewire will push the table over the hump? Does it mean a different cartridge for the SME? Or a wholesale replacement of the arm. That is the question I am trying to work out. I am still waiting on the completion of service for the Ortofon Verismo, and then I will put it on that table. I have a ZYX 4D that has gone to Australia along with my second MC2000 that I am having fit with a boron cantilever, but apparently Australia Post has lost it, or its having issues getting to customs. I sent it out on December 8th and it still has not cleared customs. My other cartridges are at a lesser level, a Shinon Red that Soundsmith retipped with one of their ruby cantilevers, and an Ortofon MC3000 II. The Ortofon MC2000 I have could go on it, but the original review by JGH showed an incompatibility when he put it on a SME V. 

So that is what I am trying to suss out, and the reason for this post. Arm pods and 12 inch arms really have nothing useful to add to the conversation as the SOTA tables can only accept 9 to 10.5 inch arms, and I am not setting a static pod on the cabinet with a table that is designed with a suspended sub chassis. 

After reading through the thread, @mijostyn post struck a nerve with me. Truth be told I overlooked an important point. As a bit of history, I should say I am a hobbyist of modest means, and while I appreciate audio gear, I must be creative and opportunistic on how I spend money to build a system. In this world of connectivity and Paypal I am blessed to have the opportunity to own gear above what I could afford if buying from just new at a retail store. I am fortunate to own what I do, and it requires that I be a careful shopper. Within my system the SOTA Cosmos Eclipse was bought new, and I bought a Scheu Audio Laufwerk No 2 as a dealer demo. My JBL 4365 were less than a year old when bought. Everything else has come off the used market, such as an Esoteric E-03 phono stage, a pair of Classe Omega monoblock amps, and a Trinov Amethyst pre-amplifier.

The Transfiguration Proteus came from a dealer as a customer trade in. I knew the hours on it, and I sent it to VAS for service after about 6 months. At this time Matsudairasan had already passed and there were limited options for service. I removed the cartridge from the table and sent it in, and the table sat while I waited for a new diamond. When the cartridge came back i reinstalled it and verified settings and began playing music. That was a mistake, because the differences in diamond and mounting apparently are significant enough to cause issues.

Last night I reset overhang. Of course the previous setting is remarkably close and once you loosen the sled then all bets are off, its really a reset. Even though the SME headshell is not slotted, it allows for the slightest adjustments in offset. I worked with that, reset VTA, and dialed tracking force down a couple tenths of a gram.

The result is a significantly more immediate sound with improved attack and presence. Dynamic contrasts are improved, and bass response is not overblown and has improved timing. All around a better sound. The lesson I learned is treat a refurbished cartridge as a new installation no matter what.

What does that mean moving forward? Well it buys me time for one. I can be more introspective and deliberate on a choice of different arm. Before I make any decisions, I am going to wait and hear what the Ortofon Verismo sounds like as it is just being finished up. Once I hear this arm with both cartridges, then I can make a decision on where I might go. Sometimes I wonder about consolidating all my analog goodies, and a sale of the Scheu and both Dynavector arms could allow me to purchase a top end arm for the SOTA. But I am not sure I can live with one cartridge, as I do value being able to have a cartridge for casual listening and not fret about burning up stylus hours.

All in all this is not a bad place to be. One thing the Classe amps have taught me is that upper tier gear made in the last 10 to 15 years is still remarkable, and capable of holding its own with many other fine audio components. So what I chose for a replacement arm does not have to be the current darling, but it does need to be a superior product with above average engineering and craftsmanship.

Curious I noticed the absence of 

@nandric 

Has he been active lately?

@o holter

I remember looking at the Amari turntables at one time, I believe they are the OEM builder for Hanss. I thought about their multi level tables, but did not pull the trigger. Instead on Audiogon I found a dealer sellign a demo Scheu Audio Das Laufwerk No 2, and I chose that as my second table. The speed regulation on the SOTA with the new motor and Phoenix Engineering controls is supposed to be superb, and to be honest I cannot hear any issues with the system Scheu uses. I have heard the VPI several times and had a Prime here for awhile, I am not fond of the VPI motors. 

What is the age of your V? Have you done anything to it? Do you still run OEM phono cable and the cartridge wires?

As an update after resetting the cartridge on the SOTA I have decided to stick with the SME V and Proteus on this table. 

However, I have the Ortofon Verismo I am receiving back from VAS. Actually, that showed up yesterday, and last night I installed it on a Dynavector DV505 on my Scheu table. Absolutely beautiful cartridge, the best I have heard here, and not sure I can really ever do better. This is a keeper. Which led to other decisions. 

Poking around on the used market I found a Schroder CB-1L tone arm that was basically in new condition. Owner had put it ona  refurbished Garrard 401 and found out he was not an idler guy. The new table won't accept the arm so I was able to buy it in as new condition for a very very attractive price. 

After completing the transaction, I realized I overlooked one important thing. The arm has XLR terminations on the tone arm cable. My phono stages are RCA inputs. So I am going to have to deal with that. I have used XLR to RCA adapters in the past and the ones I had were not good. Perhaps the Cardas ones are an option. The other choice I have is a different phono stage, and I am finding that XLR inputs are quite difficult to find. The third option is to have the cables re-terminated, and that is not an appealing one to me, I hate modifying equipment from this original design.  The one I am considering is a B.M.C. MCCI Signature. I don't know if I have ever sat down and got extended listening time with a current injection design. So, it is intriguing. 

So that is the update. 

@lewm I hear what you are saying, I just have an internal quirk about modifying expensive equipment. My own internal firewall, I hate to do it. Yes its just a set of terminations...what can I say?

All I know is this Verismo is one of the finest cartridges I have heard, I like it more than the Transfiguration, I have my doubts my MC2000 will outperform it top to bottom, its going to be similar but I think the Verismo is more liquid.

I am going to want to give it the best supporting cast I can afford. The Schroder is a good fit for my Scheu. I am going to see if that BMC is an option. I have an Esoteric E-03 that supports two of my cartridges, I will probably have to sell my Graham Slee Accession to make things work out for the BMC.

@mijostyn  Yes that is the question, are we talking the 2.0 or the 3.3? The 2.0 is going to be roughly the same price as the B.M.C. MCCI Signature ULN that is available to me. 

The topology of the Signature ULN appears to be quite sophisticated. From a users standpoint I am not wild about the internal jumpers, but I can live with it. 

From the site its a bit unclear if there is differences between the two units circuits. Or if its more about user flexibility. 

Can anyone expand? I need to make a deicision today if i am going to grab the B.M.C.

I decided on the BMC MCCI Signature ULN.

The owner of the BMC used an Ortofon Anna with this phono stage and has output set at 0 dB, RIAA, and bass functions off. I will be starting at those settings since they worked for him with a similar cartridge. 

Anyways this whole project will take a bit, the arm is shipped and set of arrive maybe even today. The arm board is coming from Canada so that is going to be 7 days or so. The phono stage from Georgia and it ships today, so another 7 days or so. 

Well the phono stage arrived safely today. It certainly is a large and solid piece of gear. Beautiful fit and finish too. It is in the rack and powered up now. Have to wait until the Schroder arm shows up though. Well, actually i did get an Audio Sensibility tone arm cable with XLR ends, I could install it on the SME V and play it that way if I wanted to. But I can be patient till the new arm gets here. 

At the end of last week I ordered cabling for the BMC pre-amp. I have a few sets of extra Argentum cabling that are my spares, and it sounds nice on some copper RCA ones, while a silver wire set of XLR cables were more energetic on the top end. My preference will be for XLR so I ordered some Wireworld  Silver Eclipse 8 XLR interconnects. I also ordered some Micro Silver Eclipse 8 tone arm cables with XLR terminations in case I want to run the SME or the Dynavector tonearms to the BMC. Should arrive early next week. 

@pindac 

Thanks for the information. The second MC2000 that I have as already been fitted with a boron cantilever and microridge stylus, its now in its modified form. This has become my daily driver cartridge. Since the OEM cantilever was not savable, this is the best that can be done with it. The second MC2000 I have is getting a replacement diamond installed in the OEM cantilever now. So at this point I have a fully functional and refurbished OEM MC2000 and T2000, and a second MC2000 to be played on a casual basis. I have a MC3000 II and MC5000 for casual listening also. 

My SOTA has a Transfiguration Proteus on it, and the other arm on the Scheu has an Ortofon Verismo on it, and while those are considered to be pretty good cartridges, the MC2000 is really within the same class...provided you can deal with its incredibly low output and high compliance. It certainly is a more difficult cartridge to accommodate. 

So the cabling showed up for the phono stage. I bought balanced Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 interconnects and also grabbed a couple of pairs of Wireworld Micro Eclipse 8 tone arm wiring with XLR terminations with straight and SME style DIN plugs. This way I can also use the SME V or the Dynavector DV505 with this phono stage if I choose so. 

With the Verismo I also found it beneficial to select the medium, +7dB I believe, setting. A little more drive opened the sound up and provided a more dynamic and lively presentation. 

One thing I wonder about is the Neumann RIAA setting. I have read a bit about this, and it seems that some folks think its inaudible, while others believe its worth exploring. Yes I can install jumpers and make up my own mind. I am just curious if others have worked with it at all. 

@pindac I have looked at the Origin Live arms and thought these could be a candidate. I understand SOTA has to fabricate a board specifically for the Enterprise in order to stay in the weight requirements of the suspension on a SOTA turntable. I may yet end up going this route. The only oddity that i dislike is why they feel the need to use a hanging antiskate weight in this day and age? A TOTL tonearm should accomplish this task in a more elegant way. A minor quibble for sure, but at that kind of money it should not present as an afterthought.

@o_holter  How did you add the mass at the counterweight? What did this give you as an effective mass for the arm when done?