VAC owners, sound off

Guys, really appreciate your candid responses so far. I was thinking I would hear things of that nature. VAC gear reminds me of McIntosh in that way. Wishing everyone here a happy Thanksgiving.

Jab, my comparison was only in the build quality of the products, not the companies.

The other thing I was wondering about, aside from build quality and reliability over the long term, is something Tvad touched on -- that of technology development over the years. My guess is because preamps of this caliber rely more on solid engineering and obsessive build quality rather than fad or bleeding edge technology and mass production, it's not so much an issue. Still, does anyone feel concern is warranted about buying a 9+ year old VAC with 9 year old technology and materials (and thus a lower used price) compared with more modern, newer units in the same used price range? Or do you feel older VAC quality at a used price would still trump a lesser but newer model at the same price?

Fplanner2000, watch it. my questions have been honest, cut and dry and for me very pertinent, esp with a brand i don't know and thus trying to get info from others in the know.

1. Is old VAC gear reliable
2. Is old VAC gear tech comprable and still relevant to more modern gear and subsequent *possible* improvements in technology over the years.

My questions have been answered from those who have thankfully shed their personal experiences. And yes, it absolutely matters what people "feel". I was asking for opinions.

Responses like yours make forums like this for people with obviously less experience and wisdom as you feel unwelcome at a good ol boys club. Gee, maybe if i get some VAC gear and start hanging out with snoots like you I can piss on someone other newb's thread after I feel self-important enough. Maybe I missed something, but I thought it was ok to ask questions on a forum.

At any rate, I do appreciate everyone who answered my questions with their own personal experiences with the gear.

Tvad, if only all heads were as cool as yours... But of course, the passion and the chest banging are all part of the game, esp when we can all hide behind a screen name and yell a little. It's all good and part of the fun until it just gets stupid.

Thanks for the sound explainer on VAC's. Answered a lot, primarily that the modern technology question wasn't necessarily the right question to ask. Got it.

Of course ultimately it always boils down to 'try it in your system and find out.' And of course that's the most useless thing anyone can say. Like, really? That's all i have to do? What am I wasting time asking questions for? Nah, I found tons of information that i didn't know -- info i trust -- in one day from over 20 posts. i feel better. And hey, hope everyone here had a good T-day. I truly appreciate you taking the time from it to give me your thoughts.

and i didn't either (mean disrespect). it is after all, the absolute truth. you have to try. my point is it goes w/o saying. More to the point, that my questions (and i think anyone's with simple curiosity about components) are leading up to if we actually want to try 'X' out in our systems, or if "X' will even work from a technical standpoint.

And for the record, i plan on doing just that.

My last ditch-resort (prob just confirming the unfortunate known) is to put in a call to Kevin Hayes and go over some specs. Plan on doing that today. If that goes as expected, I'll put this VAC up on the 'gon and use the $ to get something that hopefully synergizes better.

I confirmed impedance compatibility from Kevin Haynes when I spoke with him, so all good there.

I also got the 'welcome to the family' line from Haynes. Nice guy, coupled with reputation and the love you guys obviously have, i'm looking forward to trying the VAC.

thanks

Well, I received the pre and have had a couple nights to listen to it. It is a Standard that was upgraded to LE status. I'll give a summary of my equip and listening habits, then give some very brief impressions.

It is receiving source material from a Musical Fidelity a308cr upsampling player via analog unbalanced RCA. It is feeding a NS LM3886 chip-based amplifier, the Jaton Operetta also unbalanced. That is feeding Usher 6381 3-way towers -- 87db@8 ohms. My music preferences are solidly rooted in hard rock, and a bit of techno, though i do enjoy acoustic guitar/vocals male and female as well. No jazz, no classical.

The preamp it replaced was a Rogue Audio Metis. Comparatively, differences were interestingly not that extreme, I'd say they were more subtle. What I can tell is that the VAC seems to have a flatter frequency curve and perhaps more neutrality then the Metis. I'm still getting a handle on explaining sound in technical and oft-used audio terms. It also seems to resolve better. What I miss, though, is the mid-bass and bass I got with the Metis. That's why I say it seems to have a more neutral tone -- mids seem to be pushed more, bass seems to have receded a tad.

Has anyone experimented with tubes in a Standard before, and perhaps have either tube recommendations to try that have a bit of warmth and/or extension, or just in general what they thought of my impressions vs their own? Just curious.

Rhjazz - 2 things I never would have thought about. PS is sitting on hardwood floor. I'll try getting it off that. I actualy have some butcher block I could use. Did you attach the spikes to the PS, or underneath the wood block? Secondly, I don't recall reading anywhere in the manual about phase inversion. Ill double check.

The tubes in the pre are standard VAC issue (they even have the VAC logo on them). The previous owner said they were fairly new, and from talking to Kevin the 12ax7's are Chinese and the 12au7's are Sylvania (not sure which kind). I read up a little on Joe's Tube Lore (found the site people have been citing for years) which started me on a tube hunt. Found some Amperex 12au7's and some GE 5751 (supposedly better then 12ax7) on ebay that I'm thinking about.

Rhjazz -- just reading over the manual again -- output does state its inverting.

At this point I'm stoked to reverse polarity and see what happens, tube rolling may be a moot point. Thanks for the tips and troubleshooting all. Let you know what happens. If it is the 'a ha' moment, I'll be one very happy puppy.

Appreciate the tips on tube buying on ebay and such. I was going to go through a dealer called we-252 who runs a store called FantasticTubes, if anyone is familiar with them. Great feedback and a Power seller.

So in a general question, what's the deal with inversing polarity? Why do some manufacturers do it and not others? What's the advantage?

we-252 is the seller's name. Regardless, I appreciate all the "Beware of Ebay!" signs you guys threw up. My last tube purchases have been from either equipment manufacturers directly, or from agon.

Thanks Andr, don't know if you got my PM but you just answered my questions.

An update. Put the PS on some 1.5" butcher block, and that on a glass shelf off the floor. I honestly don't know if that made a difference vs just being on the floor. Whatever it was, it was subtle. I also reversed polarity at the amp, and that did seem to help things, though it wasn't quite the 'a ha' moment I was hoping for. The biggest difference? swapping out the stock Sovtek 12au7's and Chinese 12ax7's for a pair of black plate GE 5751's and RCA clear tops. Big difference. MUCH better bass and weight, dimensionality seems to have increased as well. Though I think the highs are a bit less extended with less decay. At any rate, the musicality has increased, which is what I was really missing.

A big shout out to Andr who turned me on to Joes lore and conversed w/me via email. Because of the tube hunt, I also met and did business with a wonderful tube seller here on the gon -- Aztubes. A relative newcomer here, but an honest, knowledgeable and helpful tube seller with reasonable prices and fast shipping. A class act and highly recommended.

So I figure I'll just tack onto this thread rather then start a new one. After listening to the pre for about 2 weeks I think I've adjusted to the sound. My impression is that it's, in a word, unremarkable? I find the mids and bass light and lacking. Vocals -- which I think any good pre should do well, are also light and even sound a little boxy and compressed. Presentation is also bit flat. Basically the sound lacks dimensionality and fullness.

Reason I bring these observations up is they seem to fly in the face of the overwhelming kudos to the VAC sound. I'm not hearing it, or at least what I'm hearing isn't what I believe so many people would be raving about.

I do have the unit on brass cones into brass feet, underneath of which are iso-node pods. I do this primarily because the shelves on my custom rack are natural wood and not 100% flat, and the cones are height-adjustable. While the cones also help tighten focus, I do notice that they lighten the mids and bass to a degree (the iso-nodes help counteract that). But I tried the unit on its own feet, with only a slight improvement.

Maybe I'm looking for the wrong things? I listen to hard and classic rock, electronica, some solo acoustic. Maybe this pre sounds better with different music styles. Maybe there's a system dis-synergy. Don't know. At this point I'm ready to put it back up for sale, but thought I'd try here beforehand to see if anyone has any thoughts or troubleshooting ideas.

I surmised the same thing. Outside of impedance matching, is there any other specs to check between pre and amp for compatibility before rolling the dice?

don't know if that contributed to the issue in this case, but gain was exactly as you described -- loud at about a quarter way or less on the dial. Is there a spec to determine if gain on a pre will match up well with your amp?

Thanks Tvad. You're an asset here.

Did you mention Audio Horizons in particular because you think it will better suit my needs or because they are a company with a 30 day? (or both)

The VAC has an even lower output impedence than the AH. One of the lower ones i've seen in fact @ 350. Based on that you'd think it would mate fine with my amp rated at 55k input.