If I order the SR Blues for my Maggie’s, it will be their sixth fuse upgrade-- all this for a fuse bank that many owners just remove and bypass. I am also defeating my fuse protection by pushing the fuse values to 3-4 times their ratings and spending a lot to do it. This would be foolish if the results weren’t so spectacular, and they are. Blues are on the way......I’m still reeling from the new Blacks in my REL Strata III’s. Floor toms now have a warm, extended resonance that wasn’t always present. Had to back down the roll-offs from 30K to 26K. Now they are more integrated with the mains for a relaxed foundation. There seem to be no limit to the improvements. Thanks for the nice, new thread, Frank---hope it lasts..........
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Maggie 3.6R update: The SR Blacks are out, the SR Blues are in. As Frank initially observed, the Blues sound better new than the Blacks sound burned in. In first listening to the 1995 Lee Ritenour and Larry Carleton collaboration "Larry and Lee", more inner detail is heard, there is extended decay to reverberant instruments. Lower midrange stands out as better defined. Short percussion fills/sweeteners, such as chimes and congas are now heard in clearer relief. The presentation on Mark Knopfler's "Sailing To Philadelphia" is more liquid, more listenable, more articulate. Please correct me if I am mistaken in saying the SR Blues are a part of the signal path in the Magnepan fuse banks serving the midrange and tweeters. As such, these SR fuses are the most important upgrade over stock than has been achieved in any component in my system, with other fuses being replaced in the AC main inputs of amps, subs, CDP. My listening evaluations of fuses in the 3.6R's have been consistent and progressive through many fuses now. Both the HiFi Tuning Gold and Supremes actually showed arcing/burning on the end caps as blue/black discolorations. In retrospect, they were not that good. The Furutechs with rhodium end caps sounded much more coherent. The SR 20's brought again a slight improvement, as did the SR Reds over the 20's. The SR Blacks were the giant leap forward, of course---until, that is, these SR Blues. Only after two hours in, I can say they are clearly the best yet--and not by a small margin. I would like to hear more reports on these Blues in all applications. |
Well, the SR Blues are so dramatic in my Maggie 3.6Rs over the also-impressive SR Blacks, I had to add just one more SR Blue --to the AC main input of my Wadia 861SE, from 2003. The Wadia uses the smaller, 20mm, 250V fuse at 1A. Since I push all values, I put in a 2.5A SR Blue to replace a 2A Black.
The effects were immediate: more information in a more deeply-textured presentation. I had to turn down the volume of the REL Strata III subs again, just as when adding the Blacks to the ARC amps' and subs' AC inputs. The increase in low midrange with the SR fuses has required a backing down of the REL roll-offs from 30hz to 28 and now to 26. There has just been too much bass from both the 3.6Rs and the subs together when adding these fuses.
Perhaps I can add some bass back as these fuses mature, but for now, the overall balance of sound favors the low and midrange frequencies with more information, which is not to say the highs are suffering--just that they are somewhat overwhelmed, depending on the recording, and I wonder if this is the effect some of you are getting when you say the highs seem rolled off with the SR Blues--time will tell.
Regarding the use of isolation transformers and power cell/conditioners in conjunction with fuse upgrades, I also have only heard improvements by using all of these power-improving accessories. Much has been said in many threads about what is gained and what is lost by trying the myriad products out there, but one rule appears constant; according to the product's capability and system requirements, front-end components are best served first, but as Folkfreak describes, the ultimate application is first a 240V/120V transformer service for all components, then other conditioners after that, as desired.
In my layman's experience, these fuses are an extension of a solid foundation of pure and plentiful AC power, the medium upon which we are modulating our music signal. What could be a better pursuit than this? |
There is just no mistaking the sonic improvements of the SR line of fuses over several years in my system. Their value is to extend the useful life of the component you may have wanted to upgrade. Spending 2K on fuses has been far more economical to me than spending untold thousands more.
How do they work? They are better conductors than the tiny filaments in glass---question is, how much are they part of the circuit? Wolf, you seem to be hung up on this aspect. Perhaps Al can define the various positions of fuses and their part in signal conduction. I know if I remove the fuses from the AC main inputs, the equipment won't work at all. I believe the fuses in my Maggie 3.6 tweeter and midrange fuse bank are part of the final signal pathway. Are they the complete pathway, or are they a shunt to receive an overload? How about the AC position--and the rail fuse? |
Al, thanks again for another useful explanation for the lay person. Some of us who are enjoying these fuses are stuck within the qualitative realm of evaluation. Whether or not they protect as well as a stock fuse, they sure do something good for my sensory perception of the music. Would you ever try one?
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To me, these SR Blues are the tweak of the year, including a couple of years prior and are better compared to a system upgrade, listener's choice. It's clear to me now why these boutique fuses have such a profound impact on sound quality, at least where I have placed them in my particular components. Cheers.......
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Well Wolf, no explanation of "why" will satisfy you, so why try?
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The SR fuses are simply better signal conductors than stock fuses. After all the improvements I have made to AC transmission, including the 240V/120V isolation transformer, OCC, 9-gauge power cords with 20-amp IEC receptacles into ARC mono blocks, Transparent cables with massive, gold plated terminals, not to mention the high-purity copper hook-up wiring in expensive components, you’re telling me the signal and the message modulated upon that signal has to pass through this silly little filament in a glass tube? This tiny hair is what all that pure AC power has to go through upon entering my amps and again, just as the message hits the midrange and tweeter in my Maggies? Not being an EE, I cannot over think this concept, but it does appear likely that the high performance fuse just might reduce the distortion and noise created through the stock fuse that then competes with the signal modulated upon the energy pathway. The better materials in the custom fuse allows more of the information, in a much clearer and dynamic presentation, to be perceived for your enjoyment. This ain’t rocket surgery, folks. |
Wolf, you say a fuse is not in the signal path--how so? Isn't the signal really the electrical energy that entered your system and came out in your speakers---with a message modulated upon that signal? A pure, quiet signal allows us to hear more of the message. That a component won't turn on if the fuse is missing should be considered important to its part in the signal. The history of Magnepan users who have removed the fuse banks is long and well documented; they sound a lot better, and they sound a lot better even by keeping the fuse banks and just replacing the Buss variety with SR's, and that's a fact, a certainty, formed by myself from my experience that I stand by. We're all sorry you didn't hear a difference with the SR Blacks. We don't tell you that you are mistaken or just not listening correctly, do we? But you are telling us we suffer from mass delusion and are easily led around by our noses because, if YOU don't hear a difference, no one else can, either. That perspective is far more troubling than anything you are coming up with and aiming toward us. I respect your audio experience, and I like your humor, though---great stuff. |
So much more detail coming out now, more separation of instruments, more definition---richer, fuller, sweeter, more listenable all around with the addition of the SR Blues to AC mains of ARC amps, REL subs and Wadia 861SE GNSC all-out mod. Interestingly, I found a HiFi Tuning fuse in my Wadia AC input as part of Steve Huntley's reference mod. The SR's 20, Red, Black and Blue each took it to successively higher levels, of course.
The Wadia is treated to its own Richard Gray 1200C, a high-current power conditioner with 1400 watts available to the front end. The 1200C is backed by the RGPC 240V/120V isolation transformer with 4000 watts into my DIY, 9-gauge, OCC power cords with Furutech Alpha copper and rhodium plugs. Isolating the gear and speakers are my own footers of automotive-grade wool felt and walnut 3" x 3" square and 1 1/2" thick. These are some of the additions I have made to take my older system to around ten plateaus higher all told, and the SR Blues are right up there with anything I have done.
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These fuses do work to a point transform a system hardly .
unless your system is lacking a lot to begin with . audioman58
Not sure where you came up with this claim. To many here, the fuses make the most differences when everything else is pretty much nailed down. Anyone care to comment?
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Expensive, yes.....but they work as claimed!
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I agree with Frank, Lostbears--the HiFi Tuning fuses came up last in my series of trials, including Furutech and all SR’s. Perhaps the Supreme has been improved over time, though.
Wolf, you continue to believe we here and thousands of others are delusional fools and only you are correct. Here’s your problem: You are conflating your atheism with your unbelief in SR fuses---this is your error. Whereas you may ridicule those with faith in a Supreme Being on the basis of lack of physical evidence or sensory signs of existence, you may not draw the same conclusion with SR fans, for we DO have evidence of the efficacy of SR fuses. We are hearing the differences SR fuses make in our systems.
I have no problem with atheism--not my point at all--don’t care what your ideas are on theism; just that your atheism does affect how you perceive the world and how you relate to those around you, especially if you are rather dogged in your position and like to make a point of telling others how ridiculous their faith is. Our situation here is quite different, though. I suggest you examine yourself a bit on this, find some humility, even walk back some comments, or you may end up in a straight jacket because we are not going to change our positions on SR fuses, and we are not going away.
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Randy....my hearing is a valid test, as is the hearing of everyone else here who is enjoying their new fuses. The term "confirmation bias" is like the term "social engineering", fun to use but void of any real meaning.
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Wolf--clearly, you are confused. As an Atheist, you do not believe in a deity you cannot experience with your senses or emotions--if it isn't there, it just doesn't exist; no evidence to prove its existence. Those who do believe in deities have faith, and there is no point in arguing with faith, as you well know. However, we here who report the sonic benefits of SR fuses do not need faith--we are hearing the sonic improvements. You have not heard them, so you draw the same conclusion about us and our SR fuses as you do about deities. This is a mistake.
As a man of logic, you would not conclude that, if you do not hear an improvement, no one else can, either. This is a fallacy, an argument from incredulity or perhaps, false equivalence. Rather, you would question your hearing, your system, your method of testing, the condition you were in, etc. If you had further interest in the matter, perhaps you would try the fuses in a different system to control for variables.
Of course, you would not believe others based on the testimony of their experiences, would you? No--that is not how a skeptic interprets the world. However, you may claim special audio knowledge that qualifies you, and you alone, to dismiss the claims of many others as absurd based solely on your unique experience of having not verified their claims. Again, the error of drawing a false conclusion and then proposing a fallacious argument. And so, you seem to be conflating your perspective of skepticism of what is unproven to yourself with others' findings based on their individually unique and, more so, their collective findings of the sonic improvements provided by SR fuses. We are here to help you with that.
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Thanks for the positive report, jpspock. The SR fuses can improve the sound coming from some of the best components out there.
Wolf--since you are unable to advance your argument beyond, "If I can't hear it, no one else can either, and they are all delusional", you are at a dead end on this thread. As I said, we are not going to change our minds on SR fuses, and we are not going away. Flail on if you must, as this seems to be rewarding to you.
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I'll have a blue, blue Christmas..without you......
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Frank, thanks for your description. I can see this treatment working well. Does it come with an applicator?
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Just changed from SR Blacks to Blues at the AC inputs in my ARC 210 (250) mono blocks, and the improvements in inner detail, transparency/decay, overall clarity and presence are profoundly better than the very good Blacks. This is on first listen---the same as I have heard with the other Blue additions in speakers and CDP, and I must compare these to a component upgrade. I can only suspect that components are woefully underserved regarding quiet current through stock fuses and that noisy current is an artifact of those fuses that degrades the modulated signal. I am, again, very happy with the SR Blues, even right away.
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Chumsusi, I can easily hear the differences though the small speakers in my MacBook Pro. I can hear the light cymbal strikes in one and not the other post. More clarity, smoother, richer, altogether much better! Thanks for posting your results.
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George and Wolf, you just have to listen carefully to both for the differences. If you do hear them, then admit this and do not attempt to discredit the poster with accusations of fraud, as this was not his intent. If you cannot hear a difference, then both of you may just be hearing impaired. |
George---the guy was impressed with the SR Blue fuse, and he went to the trouble of posting an A/B, which is more than anyone else has ever done that I can recall. And---did YOU hear the difference? That should be your first comment, but you decided to discredit the poster by casting doubt.
Yeah, I'm sure there was no "accidental" misrepresentation--any reasonably forgiving person could see this, but not you--no.
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Alright, let's talk about why these fuses might improve what we are hearing. If you believe a quieter current produces better sound, if you believe grain-free copper produces better sound, then why couldn't a fuse made of superior materials also improve the quality of current and final sound over the stock form? The AC main input fuse is part of the current pathway--take it out, there is no pathway. Even though the energy passes through transformers and other power supplies, there must be a burden of distortion carried forward that degrades the quality of the modulated signal all the way to the speakers' diaphragms. Simply put, superior materials produce a purer sound, and these fuses contribute to that over stock by being superior conductors that are more in line with the better copper, tubes, windings, capacitors, speakers, etc used in better gear vs cheaper, budget gear. You bought higher-end gear because it contains superior materials throughout--stock fuses are not superior--they are a minimum that can be improved upon. Even from a layman's understanding, this is not that difficult.
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To those who must keep asking, "But WHY do these fuses work?", I have simply suggested superior materials over that glass tube, etc., but this idea is just not satisfactory--has to more than that--couldn't be that obvious.
I am reminded of my co-worker, a follower of a health guru, and a conversation we had in a buffet line. I remarked, "Look at that nice cut of roast--I'm having some of that!" He replied, "Well, I don't eat cooked meat because the heat destroys all the proteins." I said, "What do you mean--that meat IS the protein--you're LOOKING at it."
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Getting back to superior materials in high-end components, a case in point is what can be heard through different levels of stethoscopes. An entry-level scope can be had on Amazon for $15-$30 and is fine for some, with testimonials of, "Works for me", "Good for the money", "Better than I thought", etc. They are made of a stamped, lightweight bell, a plastic diaphragm, a single-lumen tube connected to thin-metal binaural earpieces capped with hard-plastic ear cups. In contrast, a 3M Littmann Master Cardiology scope has a cast, stainless-steel bell that is quite heavy. The tough diaphragm has a silicone surround that allows for membrane discursion. The thick tube contains two inner lumens for superior transmission of sound, ending in soft ear cups that seal out external noise. Much more detail in lung, heart, bowel and vessel sounds can be heard. Although there now are electronically-assisted scopes, the traditional stethoscope is a purely acoustical, diagnostic tool, used from body to ear and varies dramatically in acoustic sensitivity depending on quality of materials. |
Prof, thanks for the summary of the double-blind peanut/placebo desensitization study over six months. One possible confounding flaw, though: Unless all subjects from both groups were carefully diet-controlled over six months, those taking the placebo AND reporting allergic reactions could actually have been unintentionally eating trace amounts of peanut product in their diets! Of course, this is the reason why a severe peanut allergy is so dangerous---so many processed foods also contain peanut residue that cannot always be avoided at the point of eating something, even though parents take great care to screen and to avoid such accidents with their children. The study does show with a high confidence level the value of the treatment, though.
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As suggested by many, the SR fuses are better conductors than the stock variety, which provide nothing more for a conductor than a thin wire, intended to melt during current overload. The SR fuses will also supposedly fail at the same point of overheating, but until they do, they are better conductors by way of the graphene, e.g., incorporated into the solid fuse body--again, superior materials improve what you are hearing.
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Geoff---so, what is the material we are warned via package insert not to remove, as seen and touched on the SR Black and Blue fuse bodies? Is it to seal in the conductive material, placed after assembly? I still say the obvious: since the fuse element itself is such a poor conductor, there must be an enhanced conduction pathway to supplement the element, which can still interrupt an overcurrent by melting. I haven’t heard any better ideas around here, and that is what is needed now for this thread to evolve.
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I sure love my SR Blacks and, more so, the Blues. The only real proof is found in the art of listening, in knowing your system's sound and how it changes after you make alterations---cleaning connections, adding isolation schemes, moving speakers, changing fuses, power cords, etc. You need the discernment in hearing to evaluate your work. We have no proof from the naysayers and know-it-alls they possess any of these qualities.
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It's a shame that, out of respect for the OP and others loyal to the forum, there is no enforcement of rules of decorum here--mere deletions are not enough. I would also expect repeat offenders to refrain from slanderous accusations toward manufacturers.
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Those of you who have not tried the SR Fuse line but insist you don’t have to, for you already know they cannot improve a system’s sound quality, are trying to sell us your authority over our conclusions based on our experience with the SR fuses. We aren’t buying your appeal to authority--I have no idea what authority you have, i.e., what is your idea of high fidelity sound? How do I know you are hearing the clarity I am hearing? What have you done to your system to eliminate noise and distortion--just what IS your system? Why are you a more careful listener than I? Prove it to me.
You insist on proof of how these better fuses work, and if someone cannot provide theoretic proof, then they cannot work as we claim. This is an empty demand, Prof---prove something to US, for we have heard the proof--you have not. George, sprinkle some snake oil on your nothing burger. Wolf, prove to us that you really did try the SR Blacks. You refuse to believe anyone’s experience, yet you expect us to believe YOU? Prove it!
I’ll take my listening and system-set-up experience as proof every time over you nattering nabobs of negativism and bloviated blather. So THERE---HA!
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Prof, hidden within your pseudo intellectual eloquence, your views are clear: You are a skeptic; you have no respect for empirical reports of better sound using SR fuses; you demand scientific method as proof of SR fuse efficacy. Since you have not tried SR fuses, you have no real position to promote or defend regarding the topic of this thread.
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Prof, skepticism has its place, but if you read the OP's introduction to this thread, he defines his audience as those who are trying the SR Blue fuses. He asks them to post their findings, he does not require a burden of proof. He also asks the doubters and downers to refrain. This is simply a matter of academic discipline: You have not tried the SR Blue and are therefore disqualified from commenting, as are George, Wolf, Mapman et al. Scholarly etiquette invites you to leave and start a skeptic's thread on the downfall of the gullible tweakophile.
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"You can’t "define your audience" on a public forum and/or "disqualify" anybody from commenting simply because you want to. That’s (obviously) not how it works. Actual scholarly etiquette (if that’s an actual thing) would seem to welcome all comments." Wolf Garcia
For the Prof, or any scholar, the OP’s introduction to his thread, although informal, is his abstract and his thesis statement. He summarizes his findings, defines his audience and narrows the scope of his topic to inform the reader what to expect. The OP went to some length there so others would not waste their time or be drawn into the subject without a clear benefit to their academic interests.
I am taking a harder line with the Prof, who would understand the discipline of appropriate response. The rest of you ridiculing doubters seek to close down this thread by citing the eventual degradation of discourse, made by YOU, as good reason to shut it down. You ARE the straw men.
Now, let’s lighten up and get over ourselves.
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Or how about, "Of course we're right--all six of us." Compared to the hundreds who endorse SR fuses, the know-it-alls here are like the drunk who enters the freeway via the exit ramp and then curses all the idiots going the wrong way. |
George, Wolf and company are like the guys who joined a recovery group for delusional thinking disorders--confessing to each other they used to go on this site and mock hundreds of other guys, lecturing them they could not possibly be hearing what they are hearing when the recovery group had never even tried to hear what they claim the others are not hearing.
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Sure, there are more important matters in life, but when I log on to the forums, Hi-Fi is important. What I see here among the detractors are folks who dismiss fuses, even cables, as scam products out of long-held beliefs not grounded in experience but in having joined with some decidedly respected authority of the same opinion. This well-entrenched camp protects them from going forth beyond a point of system development they are not willing to embark on, perhaps out of financial constraints or lack of priority on sound quality. These are, perhaps, the mid-fi malcontents, or, just as likely, the happily ignorant defenders of their faith whose mission is to tell us we are deluded. Fine--keep holding forth--we aren't impressed.
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Prof, you are forgetting yourself. Pleas read my post above on the intent of the OP's thread--this isn't rocket surgery.
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Those who argue against the SR fuses or who argue for more stringent proof of efficacy are, again, missing the OP’s intent:
He opened this thread upon first trying the SR Blue fuse.
He found remarkable improvements over the SR Blacks.
He invited those who are about to try the SR Blues to comment
on their impressions.
His is a simple invitation to an audience who is trying or is about to try the new SR Blue fuse. He is also warning the usual trolls--those who ruined his prior thread on fuses--to stay away. Why? Because those who ridicule have degraded the discourse of his previous topics.
We have that same crew here again--the corporate-conspiracy crackpots, the phony-tweak prophets, the double-blind bloviators, the mid-fi malcontents. None of you will ever hear the higher fidelity of the SR Blue fuse---not one of you.
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Well Prof, I try to inform AND amuse.
Good to hear you appreciate a finer cable.
You might reason a better fuse is like a better cable.
You might then actually try one.
Then, you would have something of topic to comment on.
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We all welcome Prof's civil discourse; we admire the finesse and nuance in making a case, but in all of this, whether from a refined or from others' crude comments, I still come away with being told that what I report as my listening experience, along with scores of others reporting, is not good enough, is subject to bias, is probably a mistake in hearing, and, until a study with control and experimental groups is conducted, even though no audio product I know of has ever been marketed in such a way, skepticism will rule decision making on buying these fuses. Through all the superfluous appeals to science, we admit we buy our audio based on a combination of others' opinions, e.g., reviewers and audiophile forum reports, product reputation and going to audio stores to actually listen for ourselves, which brings us right back to the OP's invitation: If you try the SR Blue fuses please post your report here.
No amount of circular reasoning, argument from incredulity, moving the goalposts, etc will replace this simple request---try one and tell us your impression.
I love what I am hearing from the addition of SR Blues---wider soundstage, more musical information and better clarity. I confidently stand by my findings. |
The spectrum of dissension has ranged from outright mockery and derision to pedantic lecturing, but whether dressed in tennis shoes or tuxedos, the abrasive naysayers were not invited by Frank, and, even if we are left only with mutual agreement and back slapping, at least he gets one of the threads to be in the spirit he has asked for, predictable as it may then become. Seems the only new ground to be broken here is that the more insulting, miserable trolls agree to try the SR fuses or leave. In other words--leave--time to clean house.
We can still enjoy talking about general tweakery, personal asides, music and how good it all sounds. There will also be new explanations in material science breaking through.
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Wolf, you have got to try some SR Blues. What are you doing for quiet current? I'm over on the "Fantastic Tweak" page, raving about the magic goop---great stuff! |
Frank: "I honestly thought the ARC was a grain-less amp until I made the fuse changes."
I agree. I must have reached ten higher plateaus of sound improvement by now since adding in more power supply and isolation, OCC copper, vibration control, room treatment, SR fuses and now, Total Contact. Whatever sonic limit there is in a redbook CD, whenever I thought I had come close to it, I later had found I had not yet reached it---probably never will. |
"All people in audio need to learn what the essential part is of audio and that is music and the emotion it owns." bo1972
Yes, we should all be 16 again, when passion and emotion--not the system--made the music so transformative. Today, the system is important to the experience, but the music still has to be the central passion or we would not be going to these extremes. Still, I often have to ask myself, "Am I going into the room to listen to the system or to the music?" |
Yes, Bo--please list the components of a Tru-Fi system you would recommend to me in the $20K to 40K range. A lower range of used gear would be fine if that better suits you.
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"When we have done a Statement Audio Pro measurement we need 1-2 days of rest. It does cost that much of mental energy. It is a world you not even can imagine."
Yes, but--what is it that you DO, Bo? What physical materials do you leave with the client in his/her listening room, or do you just move things around? Using my imagination here...... |
