In some cases, like many expensive esoteric tweaks, there is little or no empirical information offered by anyone, including vendors. Why should people try that? I get it that those offered free or discounted product to try will be more inclined. I’ve even done that on occasion. Everyone is free to make their own choices for their own reasons and offer their own "opinions". They should not feel threatened by other contradictory viewpoints. Unless they are trying to sell something....
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Mchael Green,
You are right. Not limited to tweaks by any stretch. Esoteric or otherwise.
People can buy whatever they want for whatever reason they want, real or imagined. The only thing that really matters is what matters to each in the end. Many could care less about objective factors.
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I think most folks on a site like this who are serious about getting good sound listen carefully to everything, read up on things, and their room at home is the only "real empirical testing ground" available. Once the tests are successful and meet their goals then they stop. Until their goals maybe change again...
Weird Science? |
fsonicsmith,
Take it from one with much experience. Don’t bother responding to Geoffkait if you want to actually get anywhere. Everything is a joke to him. He is like the pied piper of Audiogon. You will get nowhere with him. He might humor you from time to time if he feels cornered but that’s about it. He is clever like a fox though. He will gladly take your money should you decide to try one of his comical useless products. The ultimate troll! He should write a book. All talk, no walk.
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But out of the many thousands of recording I have on vinyl. tape, cd etc there is likely only a double handfull that I consider to be truly terrible. Lets say 0.1% total?
Now maybe I am missing something here but WHY should I try to "fix" my system to get this 0.1% to sound acceptable? I am more than likely going to end up just making it worse for a whole bunch more recordings before I MIGHT get it right and at what cost in time, effort and $? Same here. Just a very few out of thousands. Some almost a century old (remastered of course). No reason to worry about the 0.1%. Even new fuses oriented in the right direction probably won’t help.
You’d have a better chance of making GK acceptable.
Toot toot! :-) |
I doubt even properly oriented, bees wax-stuffed, graphene-lined fuses with TC shmeared all over it can help that dude. But its worth a try! |
Also car speakers are typically surface mounted which limits ability to do imaging the way home setups can. Not to mention the tweeters mounted far away from the woofs which totally eliminates any chance of decent imaging. Then the panels and such they are mounted in often tend to vibrate and muck up the sound to some extent. Then there is the background noise thing. Ability to pressurize a smaller space is the one thing car audio has going for it over home.
I recently leased an Acura TLX with their ELS sound system. Best sounding I’ve heard in a car in a while. Seems to have a handle on the issues including using active noise cancellation. Apple play with a high res source sets a pretty decent bar. Last car was a Toyota Avalon with JBL sound system. That was way more prone to the usual car audio acoustic vices.
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Trelja,
It was very touching how gk pined for me when I was not posting for awhile. He can't be all bad. |
Hey if a US President can meet with Kim Jong Un anything might be possible.
As long as we don’t have to talk about fuse directions or other useless topics. Time there is valuable! Plus I've already heard all about that 15 gzillion times already here and it always has the same ending.
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Oh well I guess our meeting is off and now back to making things great again. Easy come, easy go. Cheers!
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The biggest choice in HEA of course is whether to select a guru or be your own. |
Listening to music is mostly an emotional experience. That explains a lot. |
david_ten,
Sure. There are lots of audio "gurus" out there that bring unique things to the table from various perspectives, but in the end everyone makes their own decisions based on their own unique goals and perspective that may be impossible for others to ever fully understand. |
Uber so that brings up the next logical question:
If Captain Kirk and Mr. Spock both offered you to hear their systems, which would you expect to sound better? I’d probably end up choosing Captain Picard’s. But I would probably first want to hear Spock’s just to have technical perfection as a reference point at least. To the best of my knowledge Kirk has no interest in music unless some green alien space babe is playing it so that could well be a total mess. |
The chances of a one sound HEA system reproducing the actual sound (sounds) of a recording is far fetched at best. Semantics perhaps but its not far fetched at all if the goal us to produce the sound of a recording. Some of course will do it better than others. Some others still might better please particular individuals. That's kinda what makes the home audio world go round. If you mean reproducing the original performed sounds that were captured in say a mixed studio recording recording, that would be a neat trick in many cases akin to seeing the real life detail of water lilies when viewing a Monet abstraction. Some good quality simple miked, mixed, and mastered live recordings (very rare), not so seemingly impossible. |
Prof very useful and well thought out post as usual. |
One would hope nobody would be fool enough to go out woodpecking without proper protection.
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I was interested in what Mr. Green had to say initially but now that GK has become his spokesperson all interest lost. |
I’m just being straightforward. The trash is flowing out of your mouth not mine GK as anyone can plainly see for themselves. I’m interested in what Mr. Green has to say here not you.
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Unfortunately for all (except Elizabeth who done good), Elizabeth pretty much nailed it.
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MG the thing is yes this thread that you started has turned out to be a big nothing burger. Your main goal appears to be as prof indicated launch vague criticisms and convince people your place is much better and get them to hang out and maybe spend some money there instead.
It is what it is. That’s cool. Got it!
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Unfortunately Mr Green apparently has chosen to not shed any light here on any of this. Too bad. The answers would appear to require a road trip to his very interesting web site. |
Wow very interesting. My next tweak might have to be a quantum windbreaker with hoody. Maybe graphene treated. Just shooting the breeze.... |
This thread turned out to be a total dud. I did have high hopes.
GK even your usual theoretical babblings of no real consequence and nice cut and pastes from Wikipedia relating to fluid dynamics couldn’t help it.
Seems you are more the kiss of death when ever something possibly new, controversial and interesting comes up around here.
I would go to Mr. Green’s website with at least some hope of maybe learning something new and useful. I would go to yours only for comic relief. |
Kosst,
He knows. Even the janitors at Nasa know! Don’t you realize GK just likes to say things to see if anyone is paying attention to him? Very attention starved! Must have had a tough childhood. Poor guy!
My wife can detect the slightest draft. Next time I get things cranking, I’ll close the windows or turn off the AC and check with her. She will know if the air is still flowing for sure!
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Thanks. Especially if that means you are done with your moopman obsession. It's getting a little creepy. |
Guru’s like to keep things cloaked in mystery I hear but we’ll see. I asked a pretty straightforward question about the unique advertised feature of one of his products. Should not be hard to answer.
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You did. Fair enough. Don't get your pant legs in an uproar!
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To Everything tune, tune, tune eh?
The tunable speakers are interesting. How does one tune them and what changes physically with the speaker when you do?
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Sounds like hifi voodoo. Literally. Would like to see the empirical evidence of that. Some kind of cult?
Tuning sounds a like lot what many here would call tweaking. Semantics I guess.
The mysteries of HEA. Queue the spooky music! |
Michael Green thanks for answering the question.
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As I understand it from the answer MG’s approach with speakers is to use resonant cabinets like the housing of a musical instrument and then add a proprietary internal device of some sort to adjust or tune the resonance by applying pressure to the cabs from the inside. Tuning is his thing after all!
My reaction is at least that is something that should have an audible effect if intended. There are other vendors that use unusually resonant cabinets (as opposed to attempting to make them as inert as possible or the tuning adjustable by the user). Harbeth is an example I believe. Tonian is another I recall. All cabinets affect the sound that is emitted so it is probably accurate to say that each is tuned a certain way, either by design or accident.
So the concept at least makes sense and is something fairly unique and different. That passes test 1. Next from the vendor’s perspective would be the realization of the concept ie how the speaker is designed constructed and actually sounds, if one were interested enough to want an audition.
I am not quite sold in terms of the value of the concept to me personally or shelling out the dollars but that’s OK. I do not shell out any dollars for most things talked about here, whether great, mediocre, or total nonsense. Only so many dollars to shell out. Everyone chooses what matters most to them and spends accordingly.
I gave the website a quick once over and I did not find it particularly informative though the unified focus on "tuning" is unique. Needs some work IMHO.
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Geoffkait how about walk the walk not just talk the talk endlessly and build some actual audio gear yourself that actually makes music the right way according to you , take over the market, and show them all how to actually do it right, big mouth? You can start now. We will wait. I’m talking source devices, amps and speakers, you know the things that actually produce music, not your comedy act tweaks.
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Yes a very mixed bag most likely. Not my cup of tea in any way personally. I will continue to tweak in other ways when needed.
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Nothing sadder or funnier than a gaggle of self congratulatory pseudo skeptics lingering around patting each other on the hiney.
How about a do-nothing but talk, self congratulatory, egotistical, demeaning, charlatan tweak promoter, with a never-ending supply of nonsense, who used to work for NASA, but now lazily buys other peoples junk, rather than make something himself, and sells those and other common everyday things people take for granted, like phone calls, as bad jokes described as tweaks to gullible "audiophiles" with extra money to burn and is proud of it? |
mapman,
Why do you bother? I have a soft spot for GK. You should hear him pine for me when I don’t post. "Where is moopman"? Very sad. Poor guy! |
prof,
Glupson is right. Not worth getting too worked up over nonsense. Nonsense has no limit whereas common sense and reason does. FWIW I give you most coherent poster award for this thread. You and Glupson both did a great job. I admire your patience! |
I tend to think of him more as the Godzilla of Audiogon. But even Godzilla has his endearing moments. Whoops I’m sure his head is even bigger now being likened to a mighty Kaiju.
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Last time I checked, High Fidelity was a good thing and what most here relentlessly seek to improve. |
Well he’s no dummy so I would hope he chooses his words more carefully. But I have never met him. Maybe somebody else has and can answer that one. Maybe this is just his alter-ego? He likes that we are talking about him though. That I can assure you.
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Yes he does seem compelled to bring up something worthwhile on occasion. Then he proceeds to quickly ruin it. Just like Godzilla ruins everything! He needs to work on that! It lowers his batting average
for spouting the nonsense he values most. |
Now back to more important things like that many splendored beast called home hifi..... |
Yes, the 1960’s back in the glory days of tubes and vinyl, when hifi ruled. Nobody cares about any of that anymore.....
Hey wait!!!!! |
No problem Gk. I'm guessing you do not do "enjoy" only "agitate". |
Well if the next big tweak does not jump out at one maybe its time to just go and enjoy some music on one's hifi, Walkman, whatever. |
Gk if I may be so bold, you should consider upgrading to the Grado sr8Oe from your sr60e to go with the super tweaked Walkman. The extra $20 probably won't kill you. Don't be a cheapskate! I have a pair of sr80e. They are a great audio bargain for sure.
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Facts can be very boring. That’s a fact.
Arguments are way more entertaining. Like that Monty Python sketch. It’s kinda like that right here now if you think about it. |
Not pointing fingers but tolerance towards defects pretty much guarantees one’s engineering credentials, whether real or fake, are highly questionable at best.
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grannyring words do have meaning. However its possible they do not accurately reflect what the writer really meant to communicate to all. Thats OK. It’s always possible to clarify if needed. If one does not mean something that another infers just be polite and say so. End of story. |
