I like the Tekton value proposition and they are on my list of speakers to hear someday. Have not had the opportunity to-date.
I did hear a pair of larger Zu's once at the Capital audiofest. THey sounded nice on smaller scale jazz and classical recordings but I was not impressed overall. However the Zu guy conceded to me that the 6 watt or so set they were running off was likely underpowered for certain kinds of music, so the book is still open there for me. Source material was all vinyl. |
With just a few watts only on a very small scale ie headphones. With more
power the fuller range Walsh drivers aka dale harder. Otherwise two ways
with the simple crossover designs. For full range bass off just a few watts
in most any room large drivers in bigger boxes needed. Horn loading
helps. That's how most speakers for pro use are designed, large and horn
loaded for maximum efficiency.
You can't change physics. Pressurizing a room at low frequencies requires
some muscle however one gets it. Headphones can deliver needed spl at
all frequencies with fewest watts due to proximity to eardrums. |
"There will always be tradeoffs."
That is a fact.
Practically, I think the best approach is to minimize the # of drivers. Two drivers done well is enough in most cases. THree can work well also but keep the crossover points out to the frequency extremes as much as possible. The tradeoff is multiple drivers have to be integrated optimally for teh best results. With today's digital processing tools and techniques, its very doable. With just the technology of 50 years ago alone, a lot harder. |
I'd agree large dual concentric drivers in a large box like the big Tannoys (have never heard) is probably the optimal approach for use with low wattage amps, especially for more near field listening scenarios. Dual concentric has less unique advantage listening from a distance where drivers can blend more naturally due to more distant listening perspective.
KEF is big on dual concentric speakers, but not for low power tube amps in particular.
I mentioned nearfield listening. There are many more options there for low power amps due to proximity to speakers.
Driver assemblies that approximate a point source (like single or dual concentric) will have an advantage from a coherency perspective for nearfield listening scenarios in particular, but other designs that approximate a point source as well to various degrees may work quite well, depending on exact listening perspective.
Small studio monitors are commonly used in pro apps for more nearfield listening scenarios. Of course headphones play a huge role there also for good reason.
Whenever the low end is offloaded to a good sub or two, teh options for mains always becomes greater, almost unlimited.
Practically, if it were me, I would lean towards a two driver approach off loading the bass to a better qualified design as needed. In the case of a low power SET amp, that would mean separate powered subs in most rooms.
Offloading bass to a sub when needed is pretty much the only solution. You can add the subs yourself, the most practical and flexible solution I think, or buy a large speaker that has what is needed built in already. |
Reb,
I have a pair of STAX earphones that are quite wonderful sounding, especially with good amplification. If there is a SET amp in my future, it might be for those and it might even lead me to upgrade to a bigger better pair of STAX.
For speakers, small planars (Magnepan) or eletrostats (ML or similar) plus separate well integrated subs is something I would consider building around a SET amp. These speakers can be surprisingly tube amp friendly, but not particularly efficient, so powered subs would be the ticket. THis is the approach MArtyKL uses with his MMGs, OHMs, and others I believe, though not sure if he has ever tried this with a SET amp per se. |
Rebbi,
If you are thinking DIY speakers at this point as well (not a bad idea for flexibility) mount the single full range driver of choice in a cabinet, tweak the cabinet as needed, add a sub or two as needed, and you are done with a very nice DIY system (save source).
I see Dale Harder sells German Physiks DDD like Walsh drivers for DIY now. You can go full circle!! :^)
PRobably not real efficient, but assuming its not a hard load to drive (charts I have seen indicate OHM Walsh drivers at least are not, at least not until you get down into the bass regions that a sub can cover)and cross over the right sub at high enough frequency and you might really have something.
OR just stay with conventional directional full range drivers depending on preference. Either way might work. |
Reb, I would definitely not ditch the Decapos until you get the chance to get things ticking in your new "dedicated" room. I predict the Decapo/SET combo might really shine in there eventually, but you know, "famous last words"..... |
I see. Makes sense.
Keep in mind that the trend will be for smaller "efficient" speakers to have limited bass response (that's how a lot of the efficiency happens, power requirements go up exponentially as frequency decreases).
If it becomes a problem, and it may not depending on expectations, then that's where adding subs and blending them in well solves the problem effectively, if done right (not always easy to do but usually doable in the end).
The key to good coherency is often to not have crossovers in the midrange frequencies where most music (and voice) occurs. Bass region crossover points as is the case with subwoofers is not problematic in that way, but getting levels right in the bass (reasonable flat one would expect) more so. Electronic crossovers and room correction software is probably the most fail safe way. Again, I believe that is what MartyKL does and often recommends (smart guy!).
FWIW, my little Triangle Titus monitors sounded top notch in my decent size family room/kitchen area prior to the sub I used with them finally dying. That with mere 70s/80s vintage 15-20 watt (SS) receivers. I've always had teh Triangles targeted for trying a mimimal power tube amp someday, but would not put them back in that room without a sub or two again. I'd bet your DeCapos would likely do at least as good or probably much better even on a SET amp with subs. Without the subs on a SET, it might be a closer contest. |
There is a reason why single driver speakers are a niche market, at least for hifi systems. TEchnology has probably improved but again those darn laws of physics just stand in the way. HEnce the proliferation of other designs.
Midrange is where most music happens so nothing wrong with the tradeoffs involved. Limited frequency response makes finding a suitable amp an easier task, not to say that any two will sound exactly alike.
Its all about tradeoffs. Dale Harder's modern Walsh drivers probably have the best chance of pushing the limits but I would still be concerned about power needs, overdriving them, or just being able to stay in good working order over teh long term. All those things that limited their mass appeal in the first place. |
This is all good stuff. I'll be soaking it all in so in 10 years or so if/when I retire I can perhaps be more DIY perhaps. They say you become more like a child again as you grow older. I built many electronic kits as a kid, nothing so bold as a high end SET though. Those experiences have served me well. |
How about the Manger drivers? They are pretty unique. Have always wanted to hear but not very commonly found in these parts. |
When in doubt powered subs done well are almost always the great equalizer. |
Its probably more than just the speakers. More amps can shine with what they do better when a flat extended low end is taken out of the picture. Very low power tube amps the most. You have to have very large and very efficient speakers, likely horn loaded, to do flat extended bass out of a few watts. There is simply no other way. Most music occurs in the midrange though so getting it just right there can go a long way. Not everyone needs 20-20k hz flat at live like listening levels. Its also a good recipe for maintaining one's hearing. So lots of benefit to outweigh the trade offs. |
Take a look at This primer on how speakers work. It helps me to actually visualize why conventional full range pistonic drivers might not be such a great idea from a distortion perspective. Bending wave Walsh drivers are much better suited IMHO. Its truly incredible that speakers work as well as they do. Turntables too. Both have the laws of physics surrounding mass and inertia working against them. Not so much a concern with digital, amps, etc. Different physics at work there revolving solely around electricity (no moving parts) that are probably easier to overcome with technology over time in general. |
One of teh reasons I like the OHM Walsh CLS speakers so much is that the driver is above the cabinet firing vertically for the low end and wave bending to emit sound horizontally at the higher frequencies. The Walsh operating principle seem to distribute the work along the cone better. I have never heard any OHM CLS driver speaker exhibit any signs of stress or breakup EVER, even operating at high volume outdoors (off a suitable amp). And the sound is always most coherent, as advertised.
Cabinets only come in to play to provide volume needed for bass response and can be easily refurbed and refitted as needed to avoid expensive new cabinets unless desired.
Its a fantastic design with minimal tradeoffs. It does take some getting used to though, more like listening to live music than speakers. |
"Or is it that peoples hearing is so different from person to person and that what one likes another finds unpleasant?"
Much like most choices in life.
Since no speaker is "perfect" you have to choose your distortions and limitations that float one's boat. |
There is one room in my house without sound that a smaller pair of single driver full range speakers would fit into nicely along with a small tube amp. I would only use them for applications involving lower listening volume for sure. |
