Schröder Tonearm

Anyone have any thoughts concerning Frank Schröders Tonearms,especially the No 2,now that they have been around for quite a while.
How have they stood the test of time ?
Thanks, Tawa

My stock original Carbon Fibre wand Model 2 is great. I've had it for about 6-7 years now and it runs my Allaerts MC1B and I'm very happy with it. No need to change unless I unexpectedly come into stacks of cash. If I did, Frank has previously informed me that I can send my Model 2 back to him to be upgraded. Mind you, if I came into the cash, I think I'd just place an order for a SQ and join the back of a very long queue.

Most Tonearms guide a cartridge, here it is the other way. Listening to uncompressed music via this Design is like driving a car with 3 wheels.

Don't get me going. You are way off on this. Most cartridges guide the arm. The ones with sticky bearings mess it up. And there are many to that effect. If you have nothing good to say (of course a fellow German designer who is not your friend) then stay shut. You can say some smart things but get off of your attack to never end.
I can't stand it, that you don't love me. Is it necessary to have Designers as a friend? For what? Does it make an average Design any better? Does it sound better when getting something for a "friendly" price? I don't care.
In a way, it is ok for me, that no Designer from anything of my System is a personal friend. I can live with that. I prefer knowledge.
Buddy - Frank aint my friend. I just like the sound. And yes I do have respect for some gifted designers. And others I don't but I keep my prejudices aside, something you can never do. I guess you are just better than all of us. Your ears are better. Your knowledge superior. Etc etc.

But poor guy could never learn to set up a Schroder and make it sound right. Too bad. Stick with your Phantom, a great design with inherently easy setup. I have made quibbles in reference to the Schroder pains for setup etc. But it does sound glorious. But not with a warm cartridge. Too much of a good thing.
Dear Dgad: ++++++ " But poor guy could never learn to set up a Schroder and make it sound right. Too bad. " +++++

if the Schroeder was a bad tonearm design ( that it did not. ) no one could make that a cartridge sounds good and IMHO I think this is not the Schroeder " scenario ".

Are there better tonearms?, well maybe yes and yes with specific cartridges but this does not means the Schroeder tonearm is a bad design only that's not " perfect ".

As with this tonearm every other one out there has its own trade offs and we customers choose a tonearm with those trade-offs in mind and the cartridge we will mount on it.

Regards and enjoy the music,

Agreed! It is all about synergies. This I learned from you and then from experience. There are no absolutes in terms of system synergy.
I've got to say that I am extremely happy with my Schröder Reference tonearm... I use it on a DPS 3 with DV Te Kaitora Rua and Allaerts MC2 Finish on a wide variety of music types, and when approached with a good protractor, I find it not so very difficult to dial in. The sound is wonderful, and the object itself is a thing of beauty.
The quality of sonic performance, as well as beauty, is always and only in the ear and eye of the individual subjective beholder. This is both - the blessing and curse - of audio components and their status.
Dear Syntax, I do love you but disagree about the 'price
issue'. A 'friendly' price will not improve a component
but it feels great.But the price can also hurt. You just bought a tonearm for, say, $ 5000 and then read the next
day in your own forum from your own comember that you actualy bought crap. Even worst. You got your slate plinth,
polished the beauty for two weeks in your garage and even
used some exotic oil to get this greenesh glow ... You don't even need a LP to enjoy your new toy . But then come
some Aussie from some developing country to tell you that
a plinthless TT on 3 spikes a $ 5 each (=$15) sounds much
better. You would wish that this guy lives next door...
While Freud is dismissed in scientific sence all mechanism
that he was talking about start to work. More in particular
the denial: 'Are you serieus? Ever heard about Newton?Where,if I may ask, am I supposed to put my tonearm'? 'In the other galleon perhaps'?
Some chess master put it this way:' a human needs a valve'.
He meant this in the context of an awkward chess position
but I think that this may be valid in general.
So, dear Syntax , being objective or rational is fine but not all the time.

what happened to your system, did you sell it?
I thought you made a foray into computer audio?
Cheers P
Nothing special. Just more into Wiggles & Work these days. Lots of great sound out there.
Dear Nandric,
some Aussie from some developing country
you left out....'3rd world' :-)
Dear Halcro, This is called 'licencia poetica' in order to
emphasize the dramatic impact.BTW there is also some other 'definition' of the '3rd world' made by Frege for the
'world of knowledge' and used as such by Popper. A propos
Frege. His magnum opus (logical fundation of mathematics) was considered as a failure in the 'developed 'countrys for
80 years. Ie nobady was able to find a way out. But some
Aussie logicians /mathematicians ( Boolos) deed. I am well
aware that Australia belongs to the leading countrys in scientific research.
So, dear Syntax , being objective or rational is fine but not all the time...

Well, the messengers in ancient times were killed for bringing the news of a lost fight.
I think, some will miss this time....
Yes you are the messenger of what I don't know.
Which calls for Johann Wolfgang Goethe's immortal spark of genius manifested among others in "Du gleichst dem Geist den du begreifst, nicht mir" - there is of course an english translation, but it can not really grasp the true spirt. However - here we go: "Thou art (you are - in modern english) like the spirit thou canst (can) comprehend, Not me!".
I - of course - leave the interpretation to everybody's own idea.
Dear Syntax, I fear to be killed by the present -day Americans for bringing the news that Boolos got Australian
nationality from me. I was very hasty to compensate Halcro
for the damage done to his proud country but was also suprised by his reaction because I somehow thought that my
intention to be funny was obvious. This is btw not the first time that my Balkan humour caused 'some' trouble.
I am a great admirer of Frege so when I come across the
article 'Frege,Boolos,and Logical Objects' by Australasian
Association of Philosophy I somehow assumed that Boolos was
a descendant of Aristoteles. Anyway I was very, very glad
that Freges's problem was at last solved while I have read
only the introduction. No sence to read the rest because of
the mind blowing complexity.
You guys are quite entertaining, please continue.
And messengers were not always killed, let's not distort history.
Dear Inna, no, they weren't always killed ..... the poor guy who ran from Marathon to Athens to bring the news of victory over the persians invasion army, dropped dead with exhaustion after shouting "we've won!" .... kind of D.O.A. ..... and that was after all a very good news he was bringing.
Syntax was rather referring to the immortal stoning scene in Monty Phyton's "Life of Brian" I presume ....
D.O.A., right. Even a good news can be a killing thing, can it not? On the other hand, it was a bad news for Persians so they killed him, in a sense.
They had already sealed their victory .... so no need to rush...;-) ... while he ran to Athens, the rest of the persian infantry and archery were drowned in the swampy shore sands of Marathon Plain.
Well, relax, No one asked me about my real, true, naked opinion about rattling idlers, Garrads, Thorens, EMT or LP12 Turntables, or Koetsu cartridges.
Btw. I forgot:
Did I say Jehova (audiophile old Translation for a wood thing on strings...)

jehova, Jehova
Intriguing times. Better than talking about tonearms.
Dear Syntax - don't you dare! The crowd assembling for your execution will be countless ...... speaking the fprbidden words of several "Lords" in a row. You'll need your fortress in the mountains (kind of Helm's Klamm fighting back the audiophile hords).
Dear Syntax, The valve was not available to the old Greek
so they killed to get some relief. But the fact that this instrument is available at present does no imply that you
are, as Dertonarm also noticed, out of danger.

Hey, are you celebrating bad behavior? we all know that Syntax has a very unique pattern of putting his essence into short comments or images. But as we might agree on his Schroeder assessment and maybe also on the Linn LP2 and, ahem, yes - maybe on some Koetsus ( here his preferred stoning of certain products starts to detoriate) he is definitely not on his home ground regarding the EMTs. Maybe a learning field, if this is possible?
I just read this thread.
So do you guys like the freakin' Schroeder tonearms, or what? (Notice I do not even try for the umlaut.)

Sad for me that Syntax must bash the Koetsu. I am carrying the flag for the Urushi and never heard any others.
Just another thought. I was present at the "shoot-out" between the Talea and the Schroeder, at the RMAF. So were some of you, I guess. We all know it was in no way a real comparison between two tonearms as there were too many other differences between the playback systems, including most of all the use of two different cartridges. I did not have a good seat, but what I heard were two systems that sounded "different" from each other, but neither was bad and each had its merits. However, the room was pre-loaded with nouveau Talea aficionados. After it was over, I was told by many of those, most of whom had better listening positions, that (in effect) I was a true Philistine if I did not appreciate immediately the obvious superiority of the Talea. This to me was a lesson in the power of the herd mentality, not to mention the placebo effect. The Schroeder tonearms used to have cult status and are now slowly yielding pride of place to new designs like the Talea and some others. This does not mean that the Schroeder tonearms have gotten "bad", if at some time one thought they were "good".
Lewm, I was there but missed the audition. No, not really like the Schroeder arms but it is more about the church behavior you just mentioned. The same happens now with the Schick arms, you need to wait for them far too long even if they are not overpriced as some others seem to be.
I think that your original question was regarding the Model 2 so I will stick to that topic....

Pithy answer: I have had my Model 2 for over 5 years now and I still love it! I would highly recommend it to anyone - especially to be used with a MC cartridge.

Prosaic answer: The Model 2 is definitely a big winner at its price point. Yes, it is not a "set & forget" type of tonearm the way some others are, especially if you reside in an area where the humidity varies greatly with the change of seasons.

The Model 2 is an excellent design but it has its limitations as it does not have the "fine adjust" features offered in the more expensive models.
So, if you need to be able to set VTA/SRA with a micrometer then the Model 2 is not going to give you that.
If you need to be able to set azimuth within a hundreth of an arc-second of rotation...then the Model 2 will not be able to do it.
If you need to set VTF in micrograms, then perhaps it is not a good choice.

HOWEVER....IF, just IF you are NOT into Audio status symbols (i.e. "mine is bigger than yours" or "mine costs more than yours") and what you REALLY want is to enjoy MUSIC then the Model 2 is an EXCELLENT choice!
Its few limitations are far outweighed by its superb design and hand-crafted construction.

The ONLY problem is getting one!

So...enough with tonearms that cost as much as vehicles.
Just like vehicles some are going to like one and some another. Just make sure everything else in the system is up to the task of a 5-figure cost tonearm and that the effective mass of ANY tonearm is in accordance with the compliance of the cartridge to be used.

BTW; The Turntable STAND is just as important as the tonearm/cartridge set-up. So I do not suggest spending "cubic money" on a tonearm while the turntable sits on effectively the equivalent of a card table!
I have an early "two-string" Model 2, and it is very nice.