Well done! I really appreciate your research, your thoroughness, your implementation. I really love the filtering system/pump aspect. Thanks.
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Wondering if you've have ever used the Audio Desk? If so, how does the end result compare between the two methods?
The Audio Desk is more mechanical in nature. It has it's share of detractors. I'm sure that mine will fail at some point. I am still a proponent of steaming as the first step in my own regimen. (I use the enzymatic Audio Intelligent solution as a pre-cleaning agent before I steam.) This allows me to keep the water in my AD cleaner, longer. Steaming does, by it's very nature, introduce the heat that you say is best for good cleaning. My regimen is labor intensive but I'm OK with that. Also, one of the positive effects of US cleaning is that the cleaned lp, has no static charge.
( A valid point to my steaming first, even though I have an AD cleaner... just today, I was playing a lp that I had previously cleaned without steaming years ago and ran in through the AD. It had quite a few ticks and pops. I put it through my AI/steaming regimen, then through a 5 minute AD cleaning. The end result was a quiet lp. This is why I'll always keep steaming in my personal regimen.)
(To put an US cleaned lp through a vacuum drying, seems somewhat counter-productive. But there are always trade-offs.)
I can see how I can convert my AD cleaner to include your filter/pump. Later on, when my AD fails, I'll have that portion to mate with an US cleaner/spinner.
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I'm very passionate about this subject...
I noticed today, again, when draining the dirty water out, the glob of minerals on the back of the drain plug, also a fairly large glob in the bottom of my sink. I assume if I used more pure water, this would not be as much of an issue. I can be thankful that the material used in the AD cleaner is of the nature to reject these minerals so they will not cling to them!
I could also perceive one using the Walker TT may notice the difference in the sound of a cleaning solution based on distilled water vs. a more pure water?
I think I'm through. Thanks for reading.
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I do realize how important filtering is. I do regular maintenance on my AD. This includes: washing the rollers/ filter with a bleach/distilled water solution/nylon brush, rinsing again and again... rinsing/washing out the tank as best I can with a very diluted bleach/distilled solution and a nylon type brush. then rinsing again and again with distilled water.
Just today, after my last thorough cleaning on May 22, ( yes, I keep track) I was cleaning the filter,... just rinsing it out in my sink, I can see particles in the bottom of my sink. Mind you, this is after all of my careful pre-steaming and such. So, around 5 months since I last did a major cleaning and I can visually see these contaminants in the bottom of my sink.
People that use the AD by itself with no other pre-cleaning methods are not aware of just how many contaminants are on their lps!
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In my experience, one cannot damage a lp as long as you are moving at a mindful rate. Common sense mode needs to be used.
The AD (fan dries). I do respectfully disagree that vacuum drying does not cause a static build up. I've experienced this too many times. If one wants to say that static in really caused by the air or humidity in a closed environment is actually the culprit, that may be accurate in a technical sense but what happens with an audiophile in there home is using too many rotations with a vacuum machine does induce static. This is my long experience.
Again, I'm thankful to you and will be considering mods to include a filter/pump on my AD for now.
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"Neither vacuum drying nor ultrasonic impact the static, but dry brushing certainly can." Is not vacuum drying another form of dry brushing?
What, if any difference is there from vacuuming drying vs. dry brushing, other than in the vacuum mode, one is removing fluid? On my 16.5, if I use more than two rotations, it negatively impacts the positive aspect of vacuum drying as it introduces too much static.
I have many times taken a AD cleaned lp to my TT and then dry brushed it, only to have static re-introduced.
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oilmanmojo,
I found your "quick test" to be very insightful.
This does bring the use of trying to clean multiple lps as a positive prospective purchasing decision vs. the AD cleaner, in a more rational/realistic perspective.
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rushton, oilmanmojo,
Sure the AD cost quite a bit. I do appreciate the time, research, evaluating, building, times 3 or 4 or more you both have put into this issue.
I guess one of my sticking points regarding the cost for the AD vs the above... I value and put a price on my time spent on those things. For me, It would be around $25.00 an hour to be fair. So for me, to perform all of your testing, building, etc,.. in the end, the only thing I lack is the ability to clean more than one lp at a time. Also, I haven't had to buy and sell cleaners only to come back to what works best as some have. (Quite a bit of time and money and stress there).
I do appreciate the desire of an audiophile to invent a better way. I am like this on certain aspects of this hobby too.
Thank you both.
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Rushton,
Thanks!
FWIW: I was listening to "Moon Shaped Pool" this morning. I had cleaned it per my previously posted regimen. Upon listening, I found there was still some slight ticking and the bass seemed constrained. I re-cleaned it, paying more attention in the steam cleaning mode, then the AD for 5 min.
On track 2, side 3.. there is near the first portion, one/(I) can now hear the movement of the fingers sliding on the guitar strings. I did not notice it before, At least, it did not stand out.as much as to be a moment that I remembered hearing..
I have been listening/comparing Radiohead's "OK Computer/UK 1st press to "Moon Shaped Pool" this morning. After listening to side 3 of "MSP" before a re-cleaning and after, I hear a greater transparency, more "clean" and clear. (Not in a digital way). I think you refer to this as "smooth".
( Oddly enough... my "OK Computer" lp was THE only lp I've ever purchased (it was years ago) that I had to clean several times because I'd get a white substance on my velvet cleaning tools). ( I assumed this was the mold release compound). This lp is a great one. One of the best rock lps ever! |
This brings me to wonder...what affects "deep cleaning" more?... heat, heat/steam/ concentrated US bubbles/with or without heat?
( I kind of lean towards the more manual way of cleaning as it is more intensive and thoughtful). Kind of like my/our passion with the "lp experience"?? This process gives me a deeper appreciation of what is to come.
I think it may all come down to a quicker way of getting 85-90% or a more intense/manual way of getting 100%?
I wonder... does the lp playback experience... done well, benefit us more by skipping a more intense method of lp cleaning? IE: a quicker method?
Food for thought.
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Rushton,
Thanks for your response!
Interesting enough, my "following" count before my last post to this thread was 31, it has now, in the last hour, decreased by 2.
I was just trying to support your effort.
Coincidence, I think so.
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rushton,
Your last post was very informative, yet, on par with the current climate.
I, like you, can appreciate the process... I, like you, can appreciate the results. ...and so on. While I feel that you have obtained, maybe, THE best solution, I too have a great solution.
(This is not to say which one is right) Read on...
I think my point is, while you have considerable time and expense in your posting, and while others can easily hear the result, in the end, (just like many of my posts and thoughts here), people will read these posts and maybe respond (once) or even better, add a post or two, but in the end, (they) all revert back into their own universe. I'm sad to say this, but it's true.
What I have found that kind of keeps me going... even when I think I have had something... some little piece of useful info to share...then, only to have one or even no response, can be deflating.
I, like you, (I think) wish more people that find one's research useful, would just post their findings!
Is this too much to ask!
Happy Listening!
..on a lighter note... oilmanmojo, your using the word (feaseasus), WOW!, reminded me of the Andy Griffith show. Barney, well I hope you get it?!
Cheers!
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This thread has really evolved....
nkonor,
Does the VPI delrin pickup tube have better performance vs the standard tube?
Regarding the "ole school method" of a lp between to glass plates... I tried it once except I used the sun instead of an oven. Last time I'll use this method. Not willing to sacrifice my vinyl for these sort of tests. I love my Vinyl Flat.
Any Audio Intelligent users out there?
I bought a "Down With Dirty Concentrate" kit recently. I had been using the standard Enzymatic fluid for years along with my method I described early in this thread. I'm getting better results and a much better feel. By feel, I mean, when spreading the fluid with my nylon bristle brush, I get a smoother action, a noticeably improved feeling (visual too) that the fluid is working on all levels. You know, the feel of a quality piece of vinyl, how it looks, how it feels in your hands when you're handling it? Yes, this (new) concentrate is that equivalent. it seems to cling better and have an improved surface interaction.
I had cleaned my Cars "Shake It Up" MFSL a while back using my former AI fluid and my steam, VPI, Audio Desk regimen. I played it again recently and it had several "pops". This is not normal for a MFSL/clean lp. I put it through my same regimen but used the new Down With Dirty Concentrate. The newly cleaned lp was totally silent. It actually looked cleaner. ( I now put a new/newly cleaned lp through a 5 minute cycle on my AD cleaner).
I'm using 15 ml per 16oz. of distilled water. This system can make up to 6 gallons of fluid. For me, with my personal method, this is a no brainer!
Happy Listening!
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nkonor,
Got mine through Elusive Disc at 10% off = $72.00 but can make 6 gallons. According to AI, will keep for years at room temp. |
A tip for any Audio Desk users, clean the underside of the wipers often. I use 99.9% isopropyl alcohol and a Qtip. You'll be surprised at how much stuff is there.
Regarding the DWDC I mentioned above, it seems to help if you shake the mixture up before applying, by a small margin. I'm not afraid of using enough to coat the lp well. (The "drop or two" method just doesn't cut it").
Happy Listening!
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Slaw,
I've had very similar experiences. Great!
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