Bombywalla...I've been re reading your post to get a grip on the problem. Are there any standard materials that should be used for the floor, walls and ceilings? or do you just start with conventional materials and then adjust your room from there?
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I have been making some headway with the construction plans but am really stumped with this audio space. We will be able to have a full 8' in height but the room is odd shaped. Where can one get some good professional help? I need to decide if this idea will serve my needs. I could post some diagrams here as a virtual system if I can figure out how to do it. If the room is just flat out not going to cut it I need to know that going in. |
Catfishbob, Since this is your thread I guess we can't be accused of hijacking. I fish fresh water, locally in southern illinois for panfish. Have fished for trout in Wyoming. When out west i go to local fly shop and ask for advise. Trout fishing via fly is a study in Entomology and Limnology. Have fun building your room. |
Catfishbob,
the thing w/ every room is what kind of resonances is it going to have? And, how do these resonances interfere with the music/program material?
These resonances are known as room modes. You can have 3 types of room modes:
* axial - involves 2 parallel surfaces such as opposite walls, floor + ceiling. These modes are the strongest in amplitude hence interfere the most w/ the music,
* tangential - these modes involve 2 pairs of surfaces such as all 4 walls, 2 walls + ceiling + floor. the amplitude of these modes is 1/2 that of the axial modes,
* oblique - these modes involve 6 surfaces such as all 4 walls + ceiling + floor. These are 1/4 the amplitude of the axial room modes.
based on your approximate room dimensions of 16' X 12' X 7.25', you could have
* axial modes at 35Hz along the length of the room, 47Hz along the width of the room & 78Hz along the height of the room. The above stated freq & all their resp. harmonics. Since these are strong modes & in the deep bass, mid-bass regions they are likely to mess with your overall bass response. You are likely to hear bass overhang - bass from the prev notes stayed around too long & bass from the next note interacts with. Bass smearing/bass fuzziness.
* tangential modes at 59Hz along the length of the room, 86Hz along the width of the room & 91Hz along the height of the room. Again, these freq & all their resp. harmonics.
You also get oblique room modes but since their amplitudes are much attenuated, if you treat the axial room modes you pretty much are going to resolve 90% or more of your issues.
It would be a good idea to treat the room for deep bass & mid-bass (even tho' you are unlikely to get deep bass response in such a small room) so that you get a more even spectrum after-treatment response. Once you treat the room for bass you'lll have to listen to ensure that your music doesn't sound tipped up in freq (meaning to say you killed the bass too much & the music sounds thin). Treatments for the 300-500Hz region & also higher might be needed. All of this will be iterative once you treat the room & listen - it's a balance between too much & too little. |
Mesch.......what kind of fishing do you do? I mostly salt water fish, but the new room is located in the heart of Colorado trout streams. I guess I'm gonna have to figure out how to catch those little suckers! |
Fly tying to good music, great! I also store fly fishing gear in my audio room. In a corner closet, I have removed the door and store my sleeping bags and pads, makes a great bass trap. Enjoy. |
Guys I'm learning a lot of stuff here.
Jrenman and Mesch....I'm taking your suggestions one point at a time and trying to absorb it all. The ceiling will be an interesting fix. I have a good architect so I think he can come up with something innovative if i can find some examples for him. Wiring should not be a problem.
Bombaywalla......I will be working with the architect next week. Maybe he can draw up something I can post. Right now I don't have the exact size.....maybe something like 12 x 16 ft.
Nick.....Nice cave! That's my idea though I think my room will be bigger. I've got to fit in my fly fishing gear and tying space.
Tmsorosk......great tip about the video electric. I'm guilty of that at this exact moment. |
A low ceiling is never a good thing, but Nicks advice makes good sense . Although the room appearance will be compromised .
I'd go with a minimum of two 20 amp 12 gauge circuits for audio equipment , more if your setting up video equipment , never combine audio and video equipment on the same circuits . |
7'-3" is not bad my room has only 6'-6". One trick I used to gain some height and reduce reflections of the ceiling was to leave the joists exposed and to install one layer of rock wool covered by a fibreglass ceiling tile. See pics of my system "small room big sound".
This has really helped with the room accoustics in my small space.
As for the electrics, definitely run a dedicated line to your system at least 15amps. I recommend cooper medical grade outlets at 30$ a piece. The ones with green dots.
Also I agree with Mesch recommendations.
Enjoy, designing a room from scratch is loads of fun! |
Catfishbob,
Sit in a lower chair.
But seriously, you can treat the ceiling just like you would treat the side walls in a problematic room by use of absorption panels or diffusors. While these treatments are not as good as having the perfect room dimensions, how many of us have that? |
Catfishbob,
what are the other dimensions of your room? That might help answering your original question. Thanks. |
Some advise far more easily provided than adhered to:
1) 2 -3 dedicated outlets, isolate digital from analog,
2) 1" sound panel on primary reflection point on ceiling and and 2" on walls adjacent to speakers, also on rear wall behind speakers. Also absorbers or reflectors behind listening position. Check out ATS Acoustics web site (atsacoustics.com) Piper City Illinois 866-787-7881 for panels and DIY material. I built my own and saved $$$.
3) Some form of bass traps in corners behind speakers. Also can be DIY.
3) make room rectangular, with long wall 1.3 to 1.4 times short one. Consider taking a long wall/near field approach to speaker placement and listening position.
4) if dealing with concrete floor, know this can be an issue. Can sound cold. I have this issue and am considering framing in a floor. I have 8'9" ceiling so could spare the 4" space. Right now I am using Wall to Wall carpet over thick pad and an additional area rug.
Place your equipment along side wall not at point of primary reflection as opposed to between speakers. Better sound stage and image.
Having a dedicated room makes for a great audio experience, regardless of the constraints one has to work with. Enjoy and good luck. |
As far as electrical goes I'd put in dedicated circuit breaker and wire just for your audio. I'd use the heavier gauge that is for 20 amp circuits and use a hospital or other specialty AC receptacle. |
Thanks for your responses. I am thinking about the electrical as I will be doing this room from scratch so anything is possible. I do however need to make this look like a nice finished room. I can't make it look like a dormitory crash pad. So I'll have to finish the ceiling in some fashion. |
Having a low ceiling may reduce reflection times from the ceiling. Consider using insulation between the ceiling framing and completing with fabric rather than drywall - atleast where you would expect reflections from the speakers to the listening position.
Run 3 dedicated circuits, all on the same phase, if you have room for them on you breaker box. If you have the walls open, installation should be easy. |
My experience is that the first reflection off of the ceiling has a negative impact on the imaging. The best sounding room for me was a very high ceiling with a vault that is lowest on the speaker wall and goes up as it goes to the back wall. Won't work for you but there are lots of products that address reflections. |
The house that I rent has sloping ceilings and the low point in my secondary listening room is about 7' as well. I found that the low ceiling did exacerbate some midrange glare that I already was having a slight issue with. I ended up stapling foam bedding to the ceiling and this remedied the midrange glare more or less. The low ceiling did not seem to compromise soundstage height though I did find that my BG Corp 520 loudspeakers seemed more open and airy in the listening room with the higher ceiling. Unless your speakers approach the height of the room, you probably won't have any issues but, of course, only trying it out will tell. Good luck. |
only if your Wilt the stilt Chamberlain? |
It's only a problem if you think it is. It is what it is. Go with it. That's not all that low imo. |
