MM, MC, or MI cartridge

@rvpiano  : That's all about, enjoy it and with more play hours will be better yet.

 

Congratulations,

R.

Dear @sokogear  : "  van den Hul cartridges use a unique designed.shaped stylus "

Your statement is a misunderstood and is wrong.

 

VDH S, Ortofon Replicant 100 and Paratrace all are the same stylus shape and comes from Gyger ( do you know that the humble Goldring 1042 comes with the S shaped stylus tip?, well it comes with ! !   ). Please read this post coming from a professional re-tipper that really know what he is talking about.

 

All these information including the Goldring characteristic are in the long MM thread:

 

R.

 

Dear @kinross  : " Just to add the J. Grado, who developed and patented the first MC cartridges, .."

I think that you have a misunderstood about because your statement is wrong due that was not Gado who patented the MC principle but no other than Ortofon and they stated this fact in his site information.

 

Grado company born in 1953 and Ortofon patented the MC cartridge principle in 1950. Later on 19158 Grado started his patent for MC that was approved in 1960-61:

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2591996A/en

 

R.

Dear @slaw  : " The keyword is "try". "

 

I can see that thaT NO-SENSE still makes sense to you.

Please think a little:

makes sense to you to scale to the sharp end the Everest in a cycle?,. Because is " almost " the same: both a " crazy impossibilities." 

 

Maybe you can " try ".

 

R.

@wolfie62  : Btw, who was the 10E rettiper?

 

Thank's in advance,

 

R.

Dear @wolfie62  : Now I own that ADC in stock condition. I posted a thread of the ADC 26/27 original status where I made tests comparisons against top today LOMC cartridges and overall in my room/system me and the owners of the today LOMC cartridges been in agreement that that Pritchard design is just superb and could outperform any other cartridge.

 

I know that you prefer the 10E MKIV and is ok. I have the 26 with 3-4  replacement stylus and now that you brougth here ADC name I will send to an update with boron cantilever and maybe Shibata stylus shape or VDH and yes with the length cantilever of same dimension than the original aluminum one.

R.

Dear @wolfie62  : I owned at least two LOMC  Ikeda cantilever-less designs and cartridges as the L-1000 by JVC/Victor and Dyna 13D that are designs with almost no cantilever as is the today LOMC AT 1000.

Very good experiences and not exactly the same kind of performance than the Decca non MC designs.

I think that on cartridges there is nothing really new but refinements on each design cartridge principles and designs as Lyra Etna SL makes that the MUSIC experiences in our system be a superior one to all those non-cantilever designs.

Cold be interesting to ask designers of the level of Lyra Mr. Carr what he think about on quality level performance.

Common sense tells that cantilever-less have and must be a huge improvement when a source of added distortions gone but a stand alone ( Ikeda ) stylus tip obviously has its own and different added distortions to what comes in the LP grooves due  that the stylus tip was holded in some way in the " cartridge suspension " and after that comes the cartridge motor design.

Unfortunatelly in audio always exist trade-offs and our room/system will be as better as we choosed those trade-offs in each link of the room/system chain.

 

R.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear @slaw ​@rvpiano  : "" One of my life long goals was to try to emulate my live musical experience with my experience at home The MI carts from SS provide this. ""

 

It does not matters thwe media ( analog(digital ) no one including you can achieve that statement target, no one.

The best room/system target we can have is to stay nearer to the recording, nothing through any room/system can emulates the dynamics and its power clarity and transparency including the critical MUSIC transients if for no other " thing " ( there are many other reasons. ) because in a live performance " there is nothing but air between you and the MUSIC source ".

 

Now the nearest to the recording we can achieve/be it through digital alternative not analog one, everything the same.

A main reason for that are the recording/playback whole tortuose/nigth mare analog proccess against the digital " direct " proccess. No matters what. I'm not talking of preferences, just common sense.

 

R.

Dear @rvpiano  : "  I’m hoping that the new Hana ML cartridge will have some (but not all) the characteristics of digital. "

Digital and analog medium are two way different  media. Both with its own characteristics.

That we can like some analog characteristics the hope that digital even those characteristics is out of question and there is no reasons to wait for.

An apple always will tastes as an apple and a banana as a banana.

Both proccess, recording/playback, in both alternatives are totally/absolutely different.

 

Our preferences is other different issue that has nothing to do with those alternatives and it's way complex/complicated.

 

Try to enjoy the more you can MUSIC you are listening, that's all about. Which media: I don't care but as you several gentlemans cares about.

 

R.

 

 

@zazouswing  : In the other side why if the high compliance MM cartridges can pick up more grooves information can't even the LOMC princple? easy different cartridge motors.

 

Some one named the Technics EPC 100C MK4 that I owned in its stand alone version and is a superb example of one of the best MM has for offer as could be the AKG P100LE on the MI side. 

But I'm talking here of vintage cartridges that if were under today production with today parts used for the top LOMC cartridges will be a true challenge to them.

I know that my next comments are not what the OP ask for but MM always was and is in clear disadvantage vs LOMC cartridges due that for around the last 40 years the audio phono stage electronics industry was in precise focus to gives the best designs for LOMC cartridges not for MM ones, so the MM PS were " living " in the mediocrity and for the big mass audiophiles. That's why my friend and I builded a first rate phonolinepreamp with a top MC design and a top separate MM design, but this is not the industry rule today.

 

Anyway, many subjects around that I think all of them were discussed in the big MM thread.

 

R.

Dear @zazouswing  : Cartridge compliance takes in count all what is part of the cantilever/stylus movements for the better or that " impedes " freely movements and compliance in a cartridge is measured in static and dynamic way and vertical and horizontal one.

In the past the cartridge specs showed the vertical/horizontal compliance that normally were even.

 

Resonance is associated with cartridge compliance, cartridge weigth and tonearm effective mass but does not determines the inherent self cartridge habilities and I posted : " every thing the same, that means a well match between cartridge/tonearm combination.

I have a lot of LP MUSIC recordings that I use as tracking tests between them the Telarc 1812, RR Dafos and dozens more and obviously some with piano scores that as @lewm point out sometimes makes tracking really a chalenge that several LOMC can't handled with applomb.

What could be the most critical an important characteristic/issue in analog reproduction? for me the name is transient response that's what defines any single part of any " instrument color " as a whole and the overall score recorded and LOMC cartridges are faster than the other cartridge designs and for me that's why are better the LOMC: better transient response, it's suddenly/fast and this affects the time decay of the sound that affects all what we are listening.

The attack of musical notes is essencial and Orchestra Directors know very well in what they are looking through the interpretation of the whole orchestra players.

 

I respect your opinion and here is mine again. Remember that the transduced cartridges movements in a LOMC the signal path is way shorter that with the other designs. Of course that are other issues to take in count but are not what we are talking about. The OP said: briefly explanation and yes sometimes is not easy to be brief about.

R.

 

R.

Dear @lalitk ​@rvpiano  : "  They are better at picking up details in the record grooves and can therefore reproduce the fine details in the music.."

No, that's not true because what any cartridge pick up ( everything the same. ) depends mainly of its tracking abilities that depends mainly of its compliance. Normally MM cartridges are high compliance designs and has inherent better tracking abilities than LOMC low to medium compliance cartridges, so MM can pick up more signal information recorded on those LP grooves.

Cartridge motors for MC/MM/MI are way different and one of the main differences comes from there.

LOMC has better overall detail and normally are better at both frequency extremes with a tigther bass range ( less overhang down there ) and transparency at the other extreme and with a better bass range the bass range harmonics are better and helps to improves the mid range quality level and the the high frequencies.

From where comes that better quality? mainly from the really smal/tiny coil windings in the MC motor where happens the transducer operation, it's trough those coil wires where the sensitive signal pass through and in MC the coil path is way shorter than in MM/MI that's why its low and very low output that in theory as lower the output as better signal quality but all has trade offs and here the trade off with LOMC cartridges is precisely its low output that needs higher gain in the phono stages but even that the quality of its signal is better. LOMC has other inherent advantages that are that the cartridge is no sensitive to load impedance and to load capacitance where the other designa are, yes this is not what you asking for.

 

The cartridge motor principle in MC/MM/MI it does not changed over the last 50+ years.

@rvpiano  now you have an opinion of the difference on what you listen through a LOMC against the other cartridge motor different designs.

Can the MM/MI designs even the LOMC designs quality performance? this could be for other thread and exist several opinions about in the long MM thread but this subject is not what you asking for.

 

R.