Lamm phono stage LP2.1 Deluxe with low output ZYX MC cart


Does anyone have experience with using the Lamm phono stage with a low output MC cart with .25mV output? I will be using the Lamm LL2.1 Deluxe preamp. Some reviews caution using a MC with such low output, while other reviewers seem to suggest no problems. I would rather not get a SUT. 

Thoughts?
chazark1234
This is not extremely low output, shouldn't be a problem for a LOMC phono stage. Owned a few ZYX carts and it was fine. A dedicated ZYX active headamp improved the sound, look for ZYX CPP-1 mkII pre-preamp instead of a SUT. 
You can order the LP2.1 Deluxe with 31dB of MC gain (versus the default of 20dB). This configuration is ideal for cartridges with low (<= 5) internal impedance, which most ZYXs appear to be.

- Colin

Lamm Industries dealer
https://gestalt.audio
The LP2.1 already has SUTs, internal Jensens I believe with fixed 400 ohm loading. I’d be more concerned about that matching well because doesn’t ZYX like the typical Japanese 100 ohm load?

The ZYX has an internal Impedance: 4.0 Ω (8.0 Ω) Load Impedance: > 100Ω.
The LP2 has set configuration for MM and MC. 47k input impedance which apparently results in nominal value of about 430 ohms load.
Thanks
Zyx can be loaded or unloaded from 100 Ohm to 47 000 Ohm, the manufacturer recommend more than 100 Ohm and it’s up to the owner (depends on the phono stage). Thread about cartridge loading getting hot.

The goal of the special ZYX headamp (CPP-1) is unique load resistors made by ZYX of the same copper wire just like the cartridge coil (if you have copper coil). This is very interesting device, not like a typical headamp or SUT, completely different. My ZYX CPP-1 mk2 has input impedance 125 Ohm as i can see in the manual. I’ve been using not only ZYX cartridges with it (Airy III and Premium 4D) but many other cartridges with great results.



Any cartridge can be run at any load but is it going to sound good?  No.

What load do you think is best?
Dear @chazark1234 : Your Lamm has no problem to handled that ZYX cartridge.

In the other side and in reference to loading, this issue is something that you are the only one to really say which the better impedance value in your room system.
You have to test and evaluate with different loads till you be satisfied with.

Of course that you can contact directly to Lamm and ask their advise about.


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
For most MC cartridges, as Chakster said, any load resistance above 100 ohms will certainly "work".  People do argue about how a particular load resistance "sounds" with a particular LOMC cartridge.  If you will read the contentious thread on this subject that is still alive, you will see that most agree the load should not appreciably affect frequency response, until you get way down near the internal resistance of the cartridge itself.  You won't have that problem.  I suggest you can ignore the issue; you cannot do anything about it anyway, as your Lamm seems to use a built-in SUT to derive gain sufficient for your cartridge.  It also seems the secondaries of your built-in SUT are loaded with the 47K ohm resistor used when you connect an MM cartridge.  I am guessing that the SUT has a 1:10 turns ratio, which means it increases the output voltage of the cartridge by 10-fold, to drive that 47K resistance.  (10-fold voltage gain is the same as "20db" of gain, quoted by someone else.) Since the net resistance "seen" by the cartridge is fixed to the value obtained when 47K is divided by the square of the turns ratio (in this case, 10^2 = 100), your MC will see ~470 ohms (47K divided by 100).  You cannot change this without some surgery to your unit, and I don't recommend it. You'll be fine.

What load do you think is best?

It is interesting question.
If your phono stage has a built-in (1:10) SUT then i can tell you that i have similar phono stage from another manufacturer and it was OK with ZYX LOMC cartridges.

But the ZYX CPP-1 pre-preamp i have mentioned was better and much more impressive for the sound of my ex ZYX cartridges. ZYX CPP-1 Headamp is active device (battery powered) and connected to MM phono input.

With different MC phono stages (with optional loading like my modified JLTi or stock Gold Note PH-10) i never use 100 Ohm with MC cartridges, mostly 500, 1000 or 10 000 Ohm.

However this is personal preferences and system dependent.

I’m the last person to notice microscopic changes in sound due to tweaks, etc but I’m somewhat surprised people can’t hear the differences in various MC loading.


Who said "people" can't hear differences due to loading an MC cartridge?  Speaking for myself, I simply advised the OP that the fixed loading afforded by his particular phono stage would be fine.  He has no other choice without spending many $$$.  Also speaking for myself, I have been using 47K with two of my LOMC cartridges (ZYX Universe and Koetsu Urushi), but two of my phono stages do not easily permit it.  (I have 3 phono stages in rotation using two entirely different systems.) In my additional experience, loads down to about 1000 ohms for those two LOMCs seemed a bit superior to lower resistive loads.  After that, anything down to 100 ohms will certainly do OK. When the load R gets lower than about ~10X the internal resistance of the cartridge, SQ starts to get dull (a subjective impression) and gain is measurably lost (a fact), because some signal voltage is lost to ground.  But the OP did not ask about any of this.
I recently used a 0.35mv Fuuga on the same Lamm LP2.1 + a Lamm L2.1 Ref and that combo was fine, but I would not go much lower in output.  Imo, moving coils delivering 0.25mv or less need more than 60dB of gain.

I believe Lamm could swap out the internal transformers for a pair yielding 30db for a total of 70dB gain.  If it were me, I'd look at a different cartridge.