Kharma, Wilson Sophia, JM Labs I'm confussed????

I currently have the JM lab Micros (non BE). I'm driving them with a YBA passion integrated at 100w/ch. My room size is about 16x14x12. I'm thinking about upgrading to a full size speaker vs the monitors. I'm currently running my system with a REL Storm sub. It does fill in the bottom well, but it doesn't have the full range sound. I want to spend under 10k. my thought was used wilson's, or JM lab mezzos, or one of the Kharmas. i'd be anxious to hear some advice?
Dear Sea2

The system sounds quite nice and the components well chosen. You have given most information but what type of music do you listen to? Have you attended to thinks like dedicated lines and any room acoustics changes made? Finally is there a type of sound you like, ie dynamic, neutral, etc. This would also be helpful prior to making suggestion. Good luck

If you're looking for full-range speakers, consider the Coincident lineup. I've heard four different models now, and they all sound great. They're coherent, detailed, musical and very easy to drive. If you can find a pair of used Total Victory or Total Eclipse they'd do fine in your room with your amp.

I use Total Victories in a well-treated room that's 12x19x8, and they sound fantastic. I drive them with 16 rockin' tube watts. I've also heard a pair of Super Eclipse III giving magically coherent sound with very full bass, in a room that's about the same size as yours with a 9 foot ceiling. They were also driven by 16 watt 300Bs.
I too think you have a nice system. Given your room size, I'd be careful about going with a large full-range speaker, it could overload the room in the bass and you'd lose the flexiblity you have with the separate sub to control the deep bass level; if you like the JM Labs speakers you have, the next size up might be a good choice, but make sure it works in your room.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the REL doesn't have the full range sound. Where (at what frequency) do you cross over to the subwoofer now--perhaps lowering that crossover point will help?
I think a used Kharma 2.0 or 2.1 would work nicely. Easy load,good bass,exceptional mids and highs and will work great in a medium size room.
I have put in dedicated 20 amp lines to the room. I also run everything through a PS audio power plant. The room has had extra insulation, and I'm having my audio guy tune it a little more. The truth is I'm greedy. The set up sounds fantastic today. I just love the full sound of the larger speakers, but the speed and clarity of the Micros may be hard to beat. When I said the full sound I was referring to the total set up and not the REL. The REL does a great job of filling in the bottom range. I just heard the new Divas. To be honest I like the micros with the sub better. Don't we all want everything??
The AG horns come with subwoofers (must get the newer CTRL 225 subs) with controls for bass volume and roll off frequency. In your room, the Unos would be great (do not be tempted to go for the bigger horns [Duos or Trios] in your room - it's too small). Set them up well and they'll fill your room with music.
FWIW I just went through much of the same thing. I was looking at a little different group of speakers, but I bought a pair of Kharma Ceramique 1.0 from a gentleman here on AudiogoN. I narrowed my choices from the Wilson Watt/Puppies, Sony SS M9ED, and B&W Signature 30's. After my looking and studying, I have yet to hear anyone say the Kharma's were not a great speaker, while listeners are more divided about the others.

Good luck!
Nrchy:I have to agree ,I actually own the Kharma 1.0 also and recommended the 2.0 or 2.1 due to the actual closeness of sound to the 1.0. and the room size mentioned. I demo-ed 2.0 3.0 and 1.0 and they all sounded exceptional but haveing a large room with high ceilings I opted for the 1.0.
I am sure that all the speakers mentioned will do well ,but most of the Kharma owners tell you once you buy one,the only thing better is another more expensive Kharma. They are that magical...
Kharma, Kharma, Kharma, once you hear them you are stuck. I am on my second pair.

Like the post above once you hear them the only thing better is the more expensive one. Thorman said it quite well!
Bah humbug! Kharmas suck! ;-)

I don't know what planet you are coming from, but i can assure you that my Kharma Grand Ceramique Midis are a precious comodity. These speakers blew my previous, the outstanding Egglestonworks Andra II, straight out of my rig. I could respect you objecting a certain aspect of these speakers performance, but to indiscriminately state that they suck simply shows me that you are catastrophically biased by your own personal agenda. Simply put, you piss me off!
Apointer4, you have been had. The great Fmpnd, (Frank) has one of the most unique Kharma's in the world. I wish I had the pair he has now.

See Frank, look what you started! LOL!

Aponter, you're a funny guy. I had such a great laugh seeing how you missed both the smiley at the end of Fmpnd's post (or maybe you didnt' understand what a smiley is), and also his system--linked right after his name, with Kharma speakers as the VERY FIRST item in it.
LOL!!!! Aponter4, didn't mean to get yer dander up big fella! In fact, I owned the exact speaker you have (in fact, go read my review of your speaker at to find out what I think of them) and loved em!

Another fact, Pamorama (Mr. Mike) has that review pair!!

Calanctus, thanks for pointing out my sick sense of humor for Aponter4 !!!

Enjoy !!
TECHNICAL CORRECTION!! I actually reviewed the same pair Michael Fremer reviewed that did NOT have the Enigma upgrade. I enjoyed the speaker SO much I bought a new pair WITH the Enigma upgrade and THAT is the pair the esteemed Panorama is enjoying!! (sorry Mike)

Sea2, one thing I should add -- IMHO, Kharma speakers ,although not unique in this aspect, need to mated with the proper associated gear and cables and MUST be set-up properly to achieve what they are capable of.

I have heard from a number of my friends who are all Kharma owners (and whose ears I trust) who attended CES this year that the Kharma/Tenor room did NOT show them off at all. I wasn't there so I can't comment directly, but this opinion was from guys who like, own and ENJOY Kharmas. Yes, I know show conditions can be horrific, but I heard them at 2003 CES and they were not horrific. Besides, my friends were taking that into consideration. What this says to me is: Make sure you set them up properly!!!!!

Just my $.03
Hey, got taken right to the bank and then had my money stolen out of my hands! Frank i take back the comment and apologize. In fact we talked via JTinn not to long ago concerning the Kharmas that i now own and the differences in your assessment vs. M Fremer's. Thanks for your input. I am now enjoying great sound reproduction. I am glad if i caused some laughter for those on the know, that's good for the soul. Enjoy.

Sea2, if you are in the Seattle (from your moniker) area you are welcome to visit my room to hear what Kharma's can do. i do strongly recommend the Kharmas.

i second Panorama's and Fmpnd's comments (or would that be thirds?)
I'm actually living in Texas after living on both coasts. I apprciate the offer though. My boat's name was SEA2 so I can remember it. I traded the boat on a major Home Theater system about 5 years ago. My first endeavor into Hi End sound. I enjoy music more now so that's where I'm putting my money.. I don't know if there are any Kharma dealers in the DFW area. I'd love to hear them. I like the Focal tweeter. It sounds as if they are winners. I was hoping someone had compared them with the JM Labs mezzo's/alto's and could discuss a comparison. Thanks for the impute.
You traded your boat for a sound system? You should definitely talk to Mikelavigne! :D

I don't have the experience or knowledge of Fmpnd, Panorama, and Mike but for what it's worth I have heard the old JM Labs at a time when stores were clearing them out and really didn't think they were a good value especially since the new JM Labs are a step up from the old. Then again I have never heard the JM Labs in a proper setup but I am enjoying my Kharma 3.2s now and think they are much better at least they LOOK better!

I think I'm one of the few or only Kharma owner without the associated gear to match my speakers. Don't know about full potential but I think my system sounds great. The 3.2s (and I bet it'll apply to the 3.1s as well) are actually quite flexible in its setup. Yes without the highend gear and proper setup it might not sound as good as it can be but it doesn't mean it can't sound good. Plus I really bought the speakers for the headroom it offers. I know that as years roll my speakers would be the last thing I'll think about when I upgrade.
There are no kharma dealers in the whole state of texas. Kharma whips JM Labs without even trying. I prefer the lowliest Kharma over even the Grande Utopia Be's. But try telling that the JM Labs dealer in DFW, he'll never listen.