Is a Ortofon Black a step down from a Pickering XSV 3000


I currently use a Pickering XSV3000 cartridge with original stylus.  Sounds pretty good.  I do not hear many modern cartridges that sound like this one.  Is the Ortofon Black a considerable step back from this cartridge?
tzh21y

Showing 14 responses by rauliruegas

Dear @tzh21y : " ereohedron stylus is a special stylus "

well the AKG analog6 it’s too if we take your statement as true but unfortunatelly it’s not and that stylus has nothing of special: it’s a copy of the Shibata but a bad copy because the Shibata is a better design. Huges who patented it was not really an inventor about he just copy-cat and as I posted Huges did it a tiny modification to the Shibata design to be accepted his patent but that mod gaves nothing in change of advantage over the Shibata was only for to be patented.

The Paratrace is not really an invention but a mod over the VDH stylus.

Look, if you die for the cartridge you own stay with and makes no sense to go for something different. Btw, LPGear stylus comes from Nagaoka and Namiki.

R..


Dear @mijostyn : I agree with what you posted and only some " doubt " in who really design/manufacture the Clearaudio MM cartridges.

I remember years ago that I made the Virtuoso Wood review and all " signs " told me that Audio Technica was who manufactured to Clearaudio specs.
That Virtuoso is a great performer and its stylus was the FG80 that AT cartridges never used, better stylus shape than the Shibata and  cartridges with  radius in the 80um to the 100um in the Ortofon Replicant are extremely sensitive to VTA/SRA set up and I had that experience with the Virtuoso.

I like Clearaudio cartridges MM and MC ones.

R.
Dear @anthonya : I’m not against conical stylus shape as a fact I own the 103 and Fulton cartridges too but certainly that shape can’t pick up the recording information that comes in the LP grooves, only can to pick up a minor part of it.
Please read here:

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/LP3/aroundthebend.html

Btw:

Conical stylus = less contact surface.

Less contact surface = greater pressure

greater pressure = greater wear/time

greater wear = shorter useful life.

The stylus shapes with big contact areas are the ones that will last the most. The Denon 103 lasts a lot not because of the tip shape but because it is polished to a mirror finish, unlike many styli.

Also "substantial piece of diamond in the groove" is a bit misleading. A conical stylus has only a very small contact areaa. Physical size of the gem makes no difference regarding wear.


R.
Dear friends: This is very interesting:

Effective mass -- the smaller, the better:

0.970mg Shure "bi-radial" (0.4x0.7mil, MM)
0.750mg Ortofon X1-MCP (p-mount, high output MC)
0.500mg Ortofon OM10 stylus (bushed elliptical, MI)
0.400mg Ortofon OM20 stylus (nude elliptical, MI)
0.400mg Ortofon X5-MC (HOMC, nude FG)
0.370mg Shure Elliptical (0.2x0.7mil, MM)
0.330mg Shure bi-radial on V15-III (MM) (berillium control rod)
0.300mg Ortofon OM30 stylus (nude Fine Line), OM40 (nude FG), MI
0.290mg Technics EPC-P202C (p-mount, MM)
0.290mg Shure HE on V15-IV (MM) ("telescopic shank")
0.270mg Denon DL-301 (MC)
0.250mg Denon DL-207 (MC)
0.240mg Van den Hul Colibri (MC)
0.230mg Technics EPC-P310MC (p-mount, MC)
0.220mg Ortofon Jubilee (MC)
0.180mg Denon DL-303 (MC)
0.170mg Shure Micro-Ridge (0.15x3.00mil, MM)
0.168mg Denon DL-305
0.109mg Technics EPC-P205CMK4 (p-mount, 0.2x0.7mil, MM)
0.098mg Technics EPC-100CMK3 (MM)
0.077mg Denon DL1000 (MC)
0.055mg Technics EPC-P100CMK4 (p-mount, MM)



R.

Btw, MicroRidge has 75um on radius. In other side I was not aware that Grado was the inventor or at least the patent of ellipthical stylus shape.
Dear @lewm : You are rigth and that stylus shape is not a big deal and is far away from the best today stylus shape even the stereohedron stylus shape was not made/designed by Stanton, its patent belongs to the inventor: Huges, Diamagnetics Inc. and was made it after the Shibata stylus shape and for Huges registered the patent, because it’s a copy of " like Shibata " he made something additional that does not gives any advantage. Shibata still is better ( larger radius ) than the stereohedron and obviously a superior stylus shape.

Shibata is so good that not only today Ortofon uses it but other cartridge manufacturers too.
If the stereohedron will be better then this will be what the cartridge manufacturers use instead Shibata.

So the LPGear Shibata replacement stylus is better than the original and as any vintage and some today cartridges uses samarium cobalt magnets that are rally common against neodynium or alnico or platinum.

Shibata has two version of the stylus where the difference belongs at the radius. The " normal " Shibata stylus has a 75 uM radius vs 70 uM on the stereohedron.

@arizonabob is rigth too about Shure hiperelliptical and MicroRidge. No one of the Stanton/Pickering can beats the Shure Ultra 500 , this one outperforms any Stanton.
I’m not saying that Stanton is not a good cartridge because it’s but it’s not as competitive as so many vintage and certainly today better cartridge designs.

Btw, the AT MicroLine stylus shape is exactly the Jico SAS nad made it by Namiki, both are advanced stylus kind of shape .

Problem with that person that lives in Rusia is that he is a seller and is full of Stanton cartridges/stylus and he wants to sold as fast he can no matters what and that’s why he has to post lies after lies. Pity.

R.

70uM for Stereohedron
70uM for the VDH according to Audio Technica
70uM for the Fritz Gyger 70 [FG70] according to Ortofon. FG90 also exists.
75uM for the Shibata
75uM for SAS and MicroLine.
100uM for Ortofon Replicant  ( is a Gyger modification. )
Dear @anthonya : I understand your enthusiasm for the pro but unfortunatelly even your best recording studio friends are far away from true high-end audiophiles.

So, not a true reference for audiophiles, at least for me.

Conical, magical? certainly for you and maybe to some one else with low knowledge levels. Yes we can listen LPs through a Denon 103 or with a Fulton one.

Maybe what you need to research is the main importance of the cartridge motor that goes way before stylus shape because cantilever is even more important than stylus shape.

"""   better durability of the stylus. "" in the original. This is a misunderstood because all stylus are from diamond material and exist only 3 suppliers for all the cartridge industry. Different stylus shapes could last longer than other in between.

It’s enough for today, to each his own.

R.
Dear @lewm  : I experienced in more than one time to buy on LPGear and is trusty one with out doubt.

They works as OEM and its replacement stylus are good because are made it for one of the 5 only world manufacturers. So, cantilevers and stylus shape does not comes from Jico but for the other manufacturers.

They have original replacements too as new cartyridges and even NOS ones.

https://www.lpgear.com/product/ATN150SA.html

Do it you a favor and pull the triger on this MI not MM but hurry about:

https://www.lpgear.com/product/STANTON681EEEMK3.html

R.


Dear @tzh21y  : This is the Ortofon Beethoven Aniversari 2M Black best MM cartridge designed by them, they made it not only a change on parts as the boron cantilever but in the cartridge motor too:

https://www.ortofon.com/2m-black-lvb-250-p-957-n-1579


R.
My 981 sample is the MK2 stylus tip and the radius is not only higher than the Empire but higher than true Shibata stylus that’s way superior stylus shape: GOT IT? I posted what proves those facts.

What you posted is a lie , normal in you.

@lewm is rigth: "  where are the data? "

R.
Dear @anthonya :  a DJ, really? you can't choose any worst reference than a DJ where its cartridges has nothing not even relationship with audiophuile cartridges. Verified by the pro?, what they know about LOMC cartridges vintage or today ones or electrect,MI,IM,MM true audiophile cartridges?. Just forgeret about. You are wrong because your reference is the worst one you could find out.

But, if you believe what they told you then that speaks by it self the knowledge levels you have, good.

""  is same as 1042 "" absolutely not, the Audio Note and Reson cartridges are made by Goldring but the cartridge motor is way different as is the cantilever/stylus and almost everything but the cartridge body.

I own the Reson and the 1042, way different. I don't recomend any cartridge that be not a " superior " design/performer.

R.




@lewm  : "  And or you are wrong or have a high misunderstood that was designed for CD4 "

that's what I posted and where you are wrong.

I own the 981MK2 and Pickering too and in no one of the original manual information speaks nothing about CD-4 as in other vintage cartridges coming from AT or Empire and others as Grace, etc.

Btw, in the the 4000D3 Empire stated in specific its design for CD-4 using even a better stylus tip " four dimensional miniature tip of only 0.001 mil tracing radius against the 0.003 of Stanton one where the Empire tracks perfectly at as low as 0.25grs. VTF ! ! ! this is really unique not that normal Stanton stylus tip.

As I told you " stereohedron " is only a name and nothing special. Even Stanton load impedance specs is 47kohms against the 100kohms spec for Empire, Grace and others.

@tzh21y  I own this reson and it's really good performer too and yes better than your Pickering:

https://www.reson.de/screen/product/reca/language/en

R.
Dear @lewm : Look the Stereohedron is not a " big deal " and the Shibata and Shibata like is and has wider contact with the grooves and you can confirm in the link I post here. You can see there that the stereohedron is similar to an elliptic, LAC ( Empire ), fine line or hiperelliptical and Shibata is way better in that regards. P.Lenderman has a misunderstood because the stereohedron is not a shibata like:

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Archive-Audio/80s/Audio-1981-03.pdf

Read the page 23 and you will see the fig. 4 that speaks for it self.

If LPGear replacement stylus comes with Shibata then it’s not even a fake but a better stylus than the original one !.

If I remember was Audio Technica the first or one of the first to use true Shibata stylus shape.

The Ortofon 2M Black comes with Shibata stylus shape.

R.


Dear @tzh21y  : Certainly not a downgrade and other than Ortofon exist other today cartridges that outperforms what you have on hand today:  Nagaoka, Audio Note series IQ, Audio Technica, Goldring, Garrot, et, etc.

@anthonya : ""  the old stuff last longer too and better materials  ""

please tell me why last longer. Which cartridges last longer than today ones? and which vintage cartridges came with better materials than today designs?

Btw, @lewm   """  stereoHedron shape which was exclusive to Pickering and Stanton cartridges of that day. I think the stereoHedron stylus was originally designed in order to accommodate 4channel audio LPs which had a brief lifetime in the marketplace. Frequency response out to 50,000 Hz  ""

stereohedron is just a name as the analog6 in AKG, or microline, shibate, or other stylus shape designs or the one that comes in your Acutex or any vintage/today cartridge designs.

And or you are wrong or have a high misunderstood that was designed for CD4 
Look the Grace F9E came with no line contact stylus shape and worked truly fine with CD-4 as did it the Technics 205/EPC 100C that goes out to not 50khz but over 100khz and came with ellipthical stylus shapes as the Audio Technica models that worked fine with the CD-4.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.