.
I was able to hear the Phantom at a dealer back in November, but it was on a completely different system than mine (Maggies in lieu of my Sonus Faber Extremas), so I don't have a great frame of reference.
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The detail was incredible, the sound staging compressed and not well delineated and the bass lacking. The sonics did not have much weight behind the notes. I blame the dealer's system for the drop off in sound characteristics compared to what I hear in my system. The detail was better than what I hear, but the sound stage and lack of weight was poor compared to what I get in my system.
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Having said all of that, I was still impressed with the Phantom. I have a 2.2, which I really like (in part thanks to the help I got from your thread comments on damping fluid - thanks for that one).
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I had listened to a new Tri-Planar and liked the improved attack, dynamics and Bass, but I am completely sold on a Schroder Reference.
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I have heard the Schroder Reference on my system on my table with the same cartridge and was able to do an A/B against my Graham. I really enjoy my Graham, but the Schroder is just heaven in all respects. It does is all.
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I also just heard a Schroder last weekend for the whole weekend on another system with a ZYX UNIverse with all types of music and I have never heard anything as magical or beautiful as that combination.
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I have a two-armed table and was thinking of getting the Phantom. Now, I am definitely planning to get a Schroder Reference and would consider either the Phantom or the Tri-planar as the second arm.
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It would be great to do an A/B of the 2.2 and the Phantom in my own system and I will if I get the chance and report back. The Schroder Reference, although a good bit more expensive than the Phantom, is well worth the price difference and in my thinking, could easily turn out to be the last tonearm you ever buy...it is that good.
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Rgds,
Larry
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Hi Larry,
if you would like something better than the Schroeder
Reference go for the Kuzma Airline.
This one plays in another leaque than the Schroeder
Reference.
I was also in the same situation and had the chance
to do check on both arms in my system. After that
I went for the Kurma Airline.
Rgds,
Karl-Heinz |
Thank you,very much,for the fine feedback!I,too,am very interested in both the SCHROEDER and the AIRLINE.Here are my concerns though.As for the Airline,the feedback I've been getting from the preliminary press reports,as well as from my own audio friends tell me to expext this to be a sensational,and probably,final purchase.That being said,aside from the high price(and the fact that the 2.2 is way better than I'd previously thought,as I now really have inate knowledge of the effect of that DAMN DAMPING FLUID on the arm's performance)I just can't,at this time get around the fact that it will be a major pain in the tush to run the tubing and position,as well as deal with the pumps,compressors etc.But,BOY do I love to ponder the possibility of this arm becoming a reality in my system, at some future point.The SCHROEDER,also,looks to be a fine arm,only there seems to be almost a shutting out of any potential buyers,when it comes to being able to get any kind of exposure to it in the NY/NJ area.Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this one.Last year at HE 2004 there was a Schroeder shown,but,not set up for music.What good was that?I aso don't know of any dealers that demo this,seemingly great arm,in my area,aside from the fact that good ANALOG dealers died out about 10 years ago.So what does someone like myself have to go on?The feedback on the NET!Which is great,but I'm not spending any money on something that is just so RARE.Also,the Schroeder is VERY PRICEY for a pivot.It may well be worth it,though,but I admit to being sceptical of that price.As for the Airline,It is also going to be almost impossible for me to audition,but,I have a dear friend that already has the FABULOUS Air Tangent arm,so at least I have a guage of the difference between a really good pivot and the INARGUABLE superiority of a well set up air bearing.SO,one could easily live with the 2.2,but I know how much better the Air Tangent is,and like pondering the posibility of other potential ENVELOPE PUSHERS,which I've narrowed down to the Schroeder,Kuzma Airline,and Air Tangent.On a system,like mine,which is extremely revealing and has a soundstage that I can,literally,walk into,I'm convincd that the best possible arm will yield greater and greater rewards.So the quest continues.Now,please pardon me!I have to go out and kill myself. |
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I have not heard the Kuzma nor the Air Tangent, so I can not be any help with comparisons.
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I do know that the Schroder is well worth the price (as high as it is). I will make an effort to hear both the Air Tangent and the Kuzma, but it won't stop me from getting a Schroder. It is just that good. You will always be able to sell a Schroder in a heartbeat if some how you would need or want (not really a possibility) to sell it.
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I don't expect you to make a decision to buy based on an Audiogon review, but do find a way to get to hear a Schroder. When I finally get mine, you are welcome to jump a plane out of Newark, La Guardia, or Kennedy and come down to Miami to hear mine. I will be the guy with the permanent smile on my face.
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Rgds,
Larry
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|
I think, everyone has it's own kind of sight, I compared last year the Schroeder with a Graham 2.0 ( no 2.2 ), in my System, same cartridge etc. ( it was a Takeda Miyabi ).
The main difference was, the Schroeder creates a bigger soundstage ( holographic ), but is not as precise as the Graham and in my opinion the Graham is much better in the higher frequencies, here it simply delivered more info.
The Schroeder Arm is good, very good, no question, but I didn't buy it, the better Detail from the Graham combined with my doubts about it's pricing ( It's an arm with a magnetic bearing and an armwand made of wood, it is a nice idea, but only a bit different compared to a Well Tempered Ref. ) made my decision.
I think, there are only 2 real advantages with the Schroeder:
you can match an armwand to your cartridge (weight )
and
you can have a longer one ( 10.5 , 12.5 etc.+ matched for your cartridge ).
The higher frequencies have nothing to do with distortion, we used a Klyne 7 Phono with it's special calibratings.
Now, I compared a Graham 2.0 to the 2.2 and I was impressed, that bearing cup is a real improvement.
Anyway, I bought a Tri-Planar VII as a 2. arm for me.
another short story:
a friend of mine, who knows my system well, went to someone who has 2 (!) Schroeder Reference ( 2 different cartridges ) and some rare ( = exclusive ? ) electronics, but average speakers, my friend told me, he was glad, when he left the house, he was so dissapointed from the presentation ( detail, but dull ) ....
An arm alone is not the secret ....
And , but that's only my opinion, I think, that most phono stages out there can't simply show the limit of a Graham Arm, of course you will hear differences, but then it depends mostly on the listener's own priorities.
Another info:
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=vinyl&m=370936
IMHO, I think, when going in this direction, check the Kuzma AirLine.
It is MUCH improved compared to the designs years ago.
When the Turntable can hold that arm - and you can afford it - think about it. |
WOW!Great discussion,Thomasheisig.You pretty much nailed it.However,CELLO,now that I've just been hit with 14 inches of snow here in the northeast,do you have any guest rooms? |
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Hi Sirspeedy,
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Yes, I happen to have one extra room if you don't mind sharing with most of the Audiogoners from the North East. Good luck digging out.
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At some point in the near future, I will have the benefit of hearing the Graham 2.2, Schroder Reference, and a new Triplanar all on my system with the same cartridge at the same time. I have a two armed table and will have 2 of the same cartridge so that comparison process will be greatly simplified.
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I will let you know my reactions to all 3.
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At this point, I don't have the benefit of Thomas Heisig's experience. I do think I remember that Thomas' Schroder experience was not with the Reference but another model. Perhaps Thomas can let us know which Schroder model he listened to and was it on the same system at the same time as he heard the Graham and some model of the Schroder.
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Rgds,
Larry
. |
Cello.PLEASE, do follow up on that comparison! |
No problem.
I listened to various set ups with Schroeder. Some months ago there was a visit here from another Basis owner, he had a Schroeder ( Ref ) with the armboard from a Basis. He wanted to listen to a Miyabi ( and the Pass amps ), so we made it.
He sold the Basis combo later and went for a Yyger TT.
( I copied that answer from an older Thread )
Happy listening |
Dear friends: It is almost imposible to compare precisely two or more tonearms performance because there are some inherent parameters on each one, example: internal wiring, effective mass, dinamically or statically balanced, pivot or linear traking, etc..., that has an effect on the final judgement. The Larry's comparison between the 2.2 and the Reference can tell us that the Larry's cartridge mates better with the reference than with the 2.2 or can tell us that the reference is a better tonearm or that Larry likes more the " reference distortions " than the " 2.2 distortions "..
There is no a " perfect tonearm ", pivot or linear one. All of them has advantages and disadvantages and depend with which cartridge we mate it.
My advise is to have very clear our targets on the music reproduction, what we want on the sound reproduction, which are our priorities and we have to organize those priorities by importance ( to us ), we have to graded ( scale ), example:
1- timbre,
2- tonal balance,
3- frecuency response,
4- dynamic balance,
5- inner detail,
6- attack,
7- soundstage,
8- etc,...
First that compare between two tonearms we have to compare each one against our music reproduction priorities and then we can choose the best tonearm/cartridge for us.
I have " live experience " ( in my audio system ) with linear traking tonearms: Dennesen and ET, and I hear the Rockport and Air Tangent ( I never hear the Kuzma ), with all of them you can have a different music sound reproduction experience against any pivot tonearm especially with the soundstage presentation and a kind of transparency that is unique to the linear tonearm, but these don't say that these linear traking tonearms are better than any pivot tonearm. Otherwise these linear traking tonearms are not my cup of tea ( because my music priorities ), they are very good but not exellent at the frecuency extremes, these are not their heavy characteristics. BTW, the Reference is exellent whit the soundstage presentation and ,I agree with Thomas, not very good at the frecuency extremes.
I never hear the Phantom, so I can say nothing about. I hope that this time this tonearm was a terminated design, not like his brother: 1, 1.5, 2, 2.2,....
I don't trust in an unfinished design like Graham and Triplanar ( I'm not saying that these tonearms are bad tonearms. No, I know they are good ones . ). Why I don't trust: well, the designers of those tonearms really don't have the 100% of know-how about all the differents tasks that any tonearm has to do or they don't test perfectly their prototypes before they put on sale. Both put on sale unfinished designs, the Triplanar is on his VII update and the Graham is on his V update ( including the Phantom ).
Take a look to the others tonearms designers like: SME, Breuer, Brhinkman, Audiocraft, Rockport, Moerch, Micro Seiki, SAEC, Dynavector, Ikeda, Satin, Technics, etc.... You never " see " a SME V MK2 or a Moerch DP-6 MK3. That's why all these tonearms are top performers and waiting for the right cartridges according to your music sound reproduction priorities.
So, define your music targets ( graded priorities ) and then make your choose.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Raul,while I,unlike so many other audiogoners,feel that you are a well meaning and knowledgeable audio hobbyist,you don't know what you are talking about regarding the differences between a good pivot and the Air Tangent or Kuzma arms.As you probably know I have intimate familiarity between the Air Tangent and other pick up arms,in a friend's system that is TRULY state of the art.There is no contest!There is a BLOOM to music when you eliminate the bearing resonances that all pivots(except the Schroeder)have.Add the linear tracking and,in a really revealing set-up there is no arguing(something I'm sure you will)the comparison.I don't mean to be disrespectful,truly,but,I don't think you can comment on any comparisons unless you have had extensive exposure to both types(pivot and Air Bearing)in a system you know really WELL.That is why I can only comment on the Air Tangent and not the Kuzma.By the way I remember on a past thread you had mentioned to Mr. Schroeder,himself,that you had gotten access to a Schroeder REF. and would make comparisons.What happened to that?Hmm! |
Dear Sirspeedy: I already had extensive exposure to linear an pivot tonearms and what I post was my experience.
I'm confifent in what I alredy told to you and to all our Audiogon friends: till to now ( i don't hear the Kuzma, yet. ) there is no perfect tonearm, it does not exist, yet.
I don't know your graded music/sound reproduction priorities, but if exist any tonearm that can fullfill any and each one at 100% I want to know and want to test that tonearm and with what cartridges.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Interesting ideas from Raul, many of which I like. Certainly the difficulty of comparing arms is not easily overcome, and great care must be taken when making or offering comparisons. Synergy with other components - especially cartridges - makes a huge difference. Of course if you hear a tonearm with five different cartridges and you like (or dislike) every combination, it becomes a reasonable bet to buy (or avoid) that arm.
I don't quite agree that a tonearm design has to be "complete" before it becomes desirable to purchase. That almost implies that if a designer discovers some way improve his arm he shouldn't introduce it. I doubt that's what Raul meant because it's absurd. Cartridges, preamps, amps and speakers are improved all the time. So are automobiles and golf clubs. Why not tonearms?
FWIW, some of Raul's examples are actually counter-examples. The Rockport arm WAS altered after first being introduced, to improve its bass response. The SME IV is available up to version IV.vi. Should we now strike those from the list of acceptable arms just because the original version has been enhanced?
Many of Raul's other examples haven't been improved for the simple reason that no one is making them any more. You want a newly made Brinkman, Audiocraft, Rockport, Micro Seiki, SAEC, Dynavector, Ikeda, Satin or Technics? Sorry. No such thing. Would those designs have continued to evolve if the arms had remained in production? Nobody knows, but there's no reason to think otherwise. None of these arms is perfect, right? It's certainly reasonable to believe the designer would have continued to improve them if he'd had the opportunity.
Raul's beloved Moerch DP-6 (a fine arm by all accounts) has at least two obvious weaknesses: it has breaks in the wire and its VTA adjustment is rudimentary. No one would argue that either of those is desirable, they are compromises at best. If the designer fixed one or both of these shortcomings tomorrow and renamed the arm DP-6 MkII, would Moerch's top arm suddenly become less desirable? Of course not, just the opposite.
Yes, a design should be well thought out before being brought to market. No doubt some designs haven't been, Raul would know better than me. But an improvement every few years after careful testing seems like progress. Herb Papier introduced the TriPlanar MkI in 1967. We're now up to MkVII, so there have been six upgrades in 38 years. One upgrade every 6.33 years seems reasonable for a component with as complex a job as a tonearm. |
Dear Doug: The changes that the people of SME do on the V were to do their tonearms more accesible, in price to everyone, that's why exist the IV: that has the same one piece contruction but different quality bearing ( ABEC 5 instead ABEC 7 for the V ) and that the IV is statically balanced and with no oil damping. SME don't change the design.
" arms just because the original version has been enhanced? "****** Doug, the SME V was not enhanced ( in his design ) never.
The SME issue is a good one because this company is not only a very serious tonearm designers ( turntables, too ) but they are top rated in the world manufacturers for weapon items and space/aeronautic items and many more.
Can you explain why in more than 20 years that they design the V, they don't do it any up-date to it?.
Well, I think because the V is a truly finished design. It is perfect?, certainly not. There are some things that can do on the V for it will be more user friendly, but for a better performance I don't know.
I think that many tonearms designers have not the 100% know how about all the tasks of the tonearm and how to reach it and I think that not all tonearm designers are so critical and strict on testing their designs before they put on sale.
***** " Raul's beloved Moerch DP-6 (a fine arm by all accounts) has at least two obvious weaknesses: it has breaks in the wire and its... " *****
Doug, everything in this world is a trade-off. One of the heavy advantages of this tonearm is that you can change different effective mass arm wands, I can't imagine ( I would like ) how to do this with out breaks in the wire.
When anyone is in the design of anything, he is in a complex process where he has to think in any single point that affect his project for the best or for the bad. The development of a project ( a serious one ) is a hard task where you have to know all the rules for to have success. This success have to be reflected on the time, like the SME V.
The Breuer, Ikeda, Dynavector and Audiocraft ( I think ) tonearms are still on production with out changes.
I'm not saying that I'm against " changes ", no I'm not. I dislike the unfinished products because I feel that this unfinished design it can't give me the 100% of performance till it will be up-dated again. That's all.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Sirspeedy: Like I told to Doug, all in this life is a trade-off.
Which are yours? Airtangent?. Great!
If at this moment exist a perfect tonearm, I think that anyone would have it, and if that tonearm really exist I'm sure that all others tonearms designers maybe has to decide stop their tonearm production. Till now this is not what it happen.
Now, you really like the Airtangent and this is the important issue because I think that this tonearm goes better with your graded musical priorities, soundstage for example.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Larry: I will wait, too.
Regards and enjoy the music.
raul. |
You guys ALL make very good points.I'd love to have the kind of animated and passionate listening sessions with some of you,as I do with my current pals.However the points made here apply to virtually any Hi-FI component.Amps,Preamps,cabling,especially tubes(I have done my fair share of tube rolling).Who is to know all of the variables?Sometimes a really good product stands out on it's own(look at the Quad)and that was my point regarding the Air Tangent,so I don't think it has to be all that technical.Actually the only reason I keep harping,ad nauseum,on the AIR TANGENT(even though I probably never will own one) is that I've heard it like"a million times"on some of the finest and earliest pressings of some of the most sought after discs (some of which I never knew existed,and I've got a ton of them),and through considerable component,including arm, changes.I suspect the KUZMA is at least as good,and from the word on the street,as they say,maybe even better.The other 2 air bearings that are also considered in the top tier,though not sold individually,I believe,are the Rockport(that was criticized,in comparison to the KUZMA when Roy Gregory reviewed the KUZMA)and the defunct but supposedly very good FORSELL arm.I heard the forsell for a very short time so can't comment.The table looked flakey to me,but is supposed to be GREAT if you get to know it's idiosyncratic nature.I believe these are the best of the lot in linear trackers,and anyone willing to purchase one would be silly not to want to deal with the drawbacks of proper set up,even if it's Royal Pain.Time will tell and if we stay on the vinyl highway(I do have digital for the new stuff)than getting so obsessed with getting that last degree of analog performance won't seem so "nuts".I can think of worse things out there that people get carried away with.At least this is all harmless fun,and when you discover a really GREAT new piece of music on a totally new album,that also happens to be well recorded,you ALL know what I mean! |
Just a small comment. I have heard a few people mention in private that certain tonearms and components are put out prior to the desine being fully complete. Raul is not alone in his commentary (I am not referring to any specific tonearm manufacturer). I myself have experienced this with CD Players as well where they supply updates, chips changes etc for the Cd player to work. Also in computers sometime you need to do a ROM update for it to function as promised. This is just a fact of life in so many designs. If we are willing to accept it, it is a personal decision. Sometimes we are forced to accept it without even knowing (a new item we assume works, but really needs to be updated in the factory to achieve full functionality).
As for sounds of different tonearms, I myself am very curious about many of the designs from an engineering aspect. The limitation lies in the cartridge tonearm commpatability, and the superiority of a pivoted tonearm in some areas over a linear tracking, a 12 inch tonearm over a 9 inch tonearm, and a 9 inch tonearm over 10.5 inch and any variation of the above. Sound is personal taste and consensus, and synergy and truth.
I hope someone can post some commentary from their comparisons between tonearms specifying cartridges. We should be smart enough to know that this is based on an individuals system and how well it is set up. I am very exceited behind the engineering of the Phantom. I have heard some people say that they had some problems with the design once they received the tonearm in terms of calibrations of tracking force etc. But I am also understand the Phantom has an entirely new perspective on the tracking force at the record plane. We are lucky to have so many choices in equipment.
Lets all enjoy this hobby |
Dgad, Nice summary, and nice sentiment too. Doug, everything in this world is a trade-off. One of the heavy advantages of this tonearm is that you can change different effective mass arm wands, I can't imagine ( I would like ) how to do this with out breaks in the wire. Isn't that pretty easy? Look at the Basis Vector. It already has a detachable armwand. It already has an unbroken run of wire. Just imagine a choice of different armwands and voila!, mission accomplished. VPI could easily do the same with the JMW's. Moerch could bring their wire out of the wand near the attachment disc, loop it down to a stabilized point on the base (like TriPlanar) and then out as a shielded cable - all with no breaks. This is not a difficult problem to solve. It just needs an arm designer willing to do it. (In Moerch's case an exposed loop of wire might have been considered visually objectionable. Another personal choice.) I'm not saying that I'm against " changes ", no I'm not. I dislike the unfinished products because I feel that this unfinished design it can't give me the 100% of performance till it will be up-dated again. That's all Totally agree. Budget considerations aside, I'm sure none of us would knowingly buy an incomplete or inferior design. You mentioned the TriPlanar as one example of an "unfinished" design. Which aspects of it do (did) you regard as such? Like any arm it has its quirks, but these are all easy for the user to handle. From a practical standpoint, anyone considering a Mk VII really doesn't care about any possible weaknesses of the Mk II or Mk IV. All that matters is what arm s/he's going to get today. Cheers, Doug |
Hi Sirspeedy: ***** "even though I probably never will own one. " ******
If you don't buy the Phantom, maybe you can get the Airtangent. Good luck on it.
BTW, I agree with you about **** " don't think it has to be all that technical .." *****. With tonearms happen things that are very controversial and very dificult to understand, I explain this with an example in my own system:
somebody ask in this forum about the Lustre GST-801 tonearm and I think that Twl give an answer about telling that this is a good ( not exellent ) tonearm ( I can't remember exactly what Twl told ) and I post that this tonearm is a top performer.
I own two of this 801 tonearm but for months or maybe years they were in their boxes ( I only can mount 10 tonearms at the same time ). This Lustre tonearm is the cheapest, by a wide margin, of all tonearms that I have.
That question about the Lustre remember me that I have it and two weeks ago I take one of them and mount in my system, I have everything for do the right job on mounting but I can't find anywhere its effective mass for trying to mate with the right cartridge. So, I mate with my Dynavector XV-1 ( I already try this cartridge with five differents tonearms, including a Dynavector one, and always had a very good performance. The best match was with one of my SAEC tonearms. ) and big surprise the XV-1 never sound so great that with the Lustre GST-801. Why?, it is very dificult to say because the others 5 tonearms are all of them not only more expensive but exellent tonearms and mates very well about their resonance frecuency. Right now I'm mounting my second Lustre and I will try with my Allaerts MC2 Finish cartridge.
The Lustre GST-801 is unique in some design parameters, example: it is a dinamically balanced type but the VTF is apply through a magnetic mecanism ( no moving parts ), it is a J shaped type and the antiskating is a magnetic mecanism too. The build material is steel ( with internal non-oil dampening ) and Doug will be in love with its VTA mecanism and it is silver wired internally.
This tonearm has more than 25 years of design ( never changed and Doug : Koshin Electric, the company that build this tonearm, stay in the market for more than 10 years. ) and in its best time the price was only 500.00 dls and I buy it for 400.00 dls and outperforms today tonearms that have 10 times higher prices ( and I don't change, yet, the " very old " silver internal wiring. ).
Many things in the analog sound reproduction don't have technical explanation, at least for me that I'm not a technical expert.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Doug: **** " From a practical standpoint, anyone considering a Mk VII really doesn't care about any possible weaknesses of the Mk II or Mk IV. All that matters is what arm s/he's going to get today. " ****
I totally agree with you.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear friends: This is another example of the " black magic " between the tonearm/cartridge combo:
in the past, I buy two tonearms MDC-800 from Sumiko ( The Arm ) that I never mounted. A few months ago I put on sale one of them ( I think for 800.00 dls here in Audiogon ) and in the first ad day I have 15 persons heavy intersted on buying this tonearm ( inclusive, I receive a 1,100.00 offer for it. ), it sold that first day ( unfortunatelly for me ). My idea was two put on sale both but after the people reaction I ask me why everyone wants this tonearm, so I mount for the first time in my system.
I try with the Denon DS-1 and with the Sumiko Celebration ( I can't mate with heavy weight cartridges because I have only the low weight counterweigt on the tonearm ) and both cartridges sound exellent. At that time my Colibri ( the 2.5gr version ) was on the Breuer 8 and sounding really good. I take the Colibri from the Breuer and mate with the MDC-800 and now the sound not only is a very good one but an exeptional one ( My Colibri and my MDC-800 born to be together for ever. ).
The MDC-800 is an exellent tonearm copy from the Breuer in any single parameter but the internal wires, and it hands down the Breuer ( at least with my Colibri ), the Breuer is one of the best tonearms ( for many people is the best ) ever made. BTW, I already sold the Breuer and take this money to buy another tonearm and cartridge.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Raul,
You are living the dream (that's a good thing!) though I'm disappointed to learn you can "only" mount ten tonearms at one time. Surely you can do better than that. I'm not sure how you have time to eat or sleep.
Fascinating story about the Lustre GST-801, which I confess I've never heard of. I agree you can't really predict how an arm and cartridge will play by their measurements, even if you know the measurements. There is more involved in music and music reproduction than engineers know how to measure.
Cello's Graham/Schroeder/TriPlanar comparison, all in the same system with the same cartridge, will also be very interesting. |
Regardless of Raul's comments, I think the comparisons that we will do between the Graham 2.2, TriPlanar (latest iteration) and Schroder Reference while using a ZYX Universe which might be one of the most uncolored and detailed cartridges available today and on a fairly detailed, dynamic and quite revealing system, should be as good as it gets for doing comparisons between arms. Everything will be held constant except the tonearms. All of the tonearms will have already been broken in.
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We will share the results with the rest of you based on a consensus of the observations of several audiophiles with excellent ears. The hope is that the results will be helpful to Audiogoners who have those 3 arms on their short list to be able to make a decision of which direction they would like to go with regards to a tonearm purchase.
. |
Larry, am I experiencing a weird sense of deja vu, or did that last post of yours appear yesterday and then reappear today? I know I'm losing my mind, but this is spooky! :-) |
.Hey Yogi, errr..... I mean David, are you taking your medication on a regular basis ?
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I have left my dark side and re-emerged into the light. No more picking on Raul (unless of course he starts it first).
,
Regards and enjoy the chaos,
Larry |
Cello,now that I've exhausted myself shoveling out of 14 inches,and am expecting 2-4 more inches tomorrow a.m.I am obviously a little down due to the winter doldrums(did I spell that correctly?).I also spent the entire afternoon Saturday disassembling my new COSMOS,because of a faulty motor.Now it has to go back to SOTA(who were truly sorry about this and I have no doubt that it will come back to a high standard).However the process of breaking down a table and arm is a MAJOR PAIN,'cause I'm really,really,really freakin' tired of fotzing around and want to hear my music.So I ask you this simple request(accompanied by some sad violin music).Could you,please give me a time frame as to when I could have some audio excitement,again,and let me know when you will be performing this anticipated comparison.I can't hold out that much longer! |
Sir Speedy, . I just tried to email you at your address listed above on the thread ( [email protected] ) and it was bounced back to me. . Please send me an email address and I will email you off line. . Rgds, Larry . |
Larry,that is my correct e-mail.Maybe my box was full.Thanks.Don't worry,I was just kidding around a bit yesterday.At least my tennis game has not abandoned me.That was always my first love anyway.In case you are wondering about tennis in snow,I play indoors at Princeton Univ.,1/2 mile away from the Princeton Record Exchange,so I am a happy guy,after all,even though there has been DRECK there lately! |
I had a graham 2.2 for about 3 years and just got the phantom about a month ago.Like anything else in analog it take time to tweek it,but once you get it right my impressions were ,better bass and dynamics,smoother presentation without loss of detail,little more air in the top octave,soundstage about equal.Overall I would say it is a significant step up from the 2.2,great job by Bob Graham. |
Strapper.Just wanted to ask you if you think one of the factors for the better performance you are getting might be the higher weight of the Koetsu being a better match for the more massive(than 2.2)arm tube of the Phantom. |
It is possible,the Phantom is like a 2.2 on steroids,it is massive in the armtube and pivot.I am sure the Onyx being a quite heavy cartridge does not mind the extra mass.But the feel of the phantom is very rigid,I think bob graham damped out a lot of reasonces that were present in the 2.2,
If you liked the 2.2 you will love the phantom. |
Strapper - What is the 'effective mass' of the Phantom compared to the 2.2? |
For 4 grand I think I'll hand on to my 2.2 |
