Fee for home audition

@dhite71 It is not a new unit. It is a demo unit which is more than a year old. I would not ask a dealer to open a new unit for audition purpose.
 

Anyway I have moved on and just received my Grimm MU1. I just connected everything. Unit is getting warmed up. Very simple to set up and so far no issues. I selected 1.6 TB of music to be transferred to internal drive. I will do the transfer overnight. Once again appreciate all of the responses in this thread. 

Everything is now set! Working great and that special Grimm special recipe for AES/EBU is working its magic!

Now what’s next? Upgrade Holo May to something better? Do it now or wait? Upgrade in steps or jump straight to Wadax reference? Just kidding. First world problems 

The dealer told me that if I buy it and return it there is 15% restocking fee. If he brings to my home for one hour it’s 5% fee. Of course, if f I buy it immediately there is no fee.

I do live in the East Coast. My long term dealer does not carry a lot of digital stuff. So I had to reach to this dealer for the specific streamer I was interested in. I offered to pick and drop off in an hour but he insisted on bringing it and taking back. I offered a hold on my credit card for full price if I can pick up but he refused. 

Can you even imagine a guy selling a TV bringing it out to your home for a quick look? 
 

I agree that would not be possible but I can buy the TV and return in a decent time for a full refund if I am not satisfied. It is even better. 

Thanks for the replies. I was looking at the Grimm mu1. So 5% is not exactly a small amount. 

It seems like I have to look at other dealers for a home demo. I would have tried in store demo but the Grimm mu1 is very much tuned to digital coaxial output. The dealer only carries DACs with USB.

After all the responses in this thread, I am going to reach out to other dealers. Hopefully I will get a home audition. Thank you for all advise.

I never asked the dealer to bring his equipment to my home. I offered to pay full upfront for an already open demo unit he has in store and I offered to pick up and drop off. He actually wanted to bring it to my home. If I am paying full price there is no need for trust issue. Why is it more delicate than a car? I am not asking for a cartridge. 
 

@socrates7 don’t dealers make a profit with the sale? In most industries, part of this profit pays for the expertise they bring. I did not say I will not pay for expertise but where is the expertise in loaning a gear for an hour? We never got to the point of discussing a sale so what’s the massive discount expectation you are talking about?

@xtremefidelity are you suggesting that I am misstating facts?  There is no misunderstanding. The charge initially quoted was 5% of 12500 - $625 for an hour.

Now thanks to a lot of responses I know this is not the standard. I just spoke to another dealer who is sending me a demo unit. I should have it in a day. Hopefully it will sound great and I will purchase from him. Thank you everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. 

@ghasley your contribution to Grimm thread is vary valuable and I certainly believe you. I am not sure you know the dealer. I did not reveal any info on the dealer as I did not want a single interaction with one customer to damage his business. He has been in business for a few years and I do not think he would still be operating if he was a bad dealer. For whatever reason, he decided to charge me for a home demo. I have moved on and so all good. 

The purpose my thread was to get information regarding home audition. I accomplished that with the help of amazing audiogoners! I just got the Grimm today for home audition today form a very friendly dealer. I will set up everything later tonight and evaluate the new addition to my system. Hopefully it will sound as amazing as it was described and I will end up purchasing the streamer. 
 

Once gain thanks to everyone who contributed!

@ghasley 

i agree with most of your points. This is my problem was regarding the “demo fee”.  I clarify again. I am less than 10 minutes from the dealer. I gave him a clear option of paying full sale price (msrp) and taking the demo out by myself and returning within his specified hour. Even with this option, I was willing to pay a reasonable fee for demo. He insisted on bringing the product himself. Question was whether 5%, 625 was reasonable. Of course it’s his right to business anyway he chooses to. It’s also my decision whether I decide to business with him. 

I am not sure how you dismiss 12500 as not being worthy of his attention. There is no high end dealer who will walk away from a 12500 sale. FYI, my current dealer who is sending me the Grimm has more high end products that the previous dealer can only dream of. I am still not sure if you know the dealer, maybe you are thinking some other dealer.
 

@waytoomuchstuff you claim that you had no idea what really transpired yet you write paragraphs…..

@dznutz No one will ship expensive stuff to random strangers. I did give my credit card and authorized a hold of the full purchase price. If I like it I send it back and get a new one shipped. If not, I send it back and pay only for shipping. I like it so far. I am still waiting for the AES cable before deciding. PM me if are really interested, I can hook you up

@waytoomuchstuff, I too regret that I am unable to work with my regular dealer. He is not into digital and does not offer much more than basic stuff. Yes he helped me get to where I am right now and I love my system

@ghasley I did have a chance to evaluate the Grimm MU1 in a more relaxing place (my home). Here is my summary if anyone is interested. I am not good at audiophile descriptions so please bear with me. First and foremost, the best output is AES, I used a Shunyata Omega. It probably does not make sense for most but this was the only one I had access to (from my friend). The only other AES cable I had was an Amazon basics cable. Yes I heard a clear difference between the two (do not want “cable makes difference or not argument” so ignore this if you do not agree).

Now to the Grimm Mu1. The sound is sublime, I know the term is very vague. There is no question that it brings out more resolution. I was really surprised as I did not think the digital files had anymore info to be extracted. There is a higher level of detail in every single instrument that the difference is obvious. The tone and timbre is precise and beautiful. There is simply more detail and delicacy at the top end. The mids are precisely laid out, touch more vocal forward. The lows are amazing, well rounded, firm, deep and this is where one is going to appreciate a difference without even going back and forth. I am not much into soundstaging but the staging is precise, everything well laid out. Overall sound is very detailed and engaging/pleasing. As far as oversampling, the Grimm is miles better than Roon and surprisingly it is also better than hqplayer. But I found some recordings significantly better with over sampling and some NOS mode. I can keep elaborating but I am not trying to review.

Something’s to watch out if you are looking at Grimm MU1. No streamer is perfect for everyone. So is Grimm. It does not have Wi-Fi. It’s a major limitation for some. The inputs are very limited. Either Ethernet or USB. Ethernet sounds the amazing. This is extremely well optimized. USB input on the other hand should at best be completely avoided unless there is no other option available. One workaround for those using USB input is to use this to add the music to internal drive and play, if possible. Music from internal drive sounds the best among all sources for obvious reasons. You also have the option of using AES, SPDIF or optical inputs. Only the user can determine if it works or not for their system. please note, these above statements only apply to inputs.

As far as outputs, the one that is clearly optimized for the very best sound is AES. It is limited to 196khz or DSD 64 but I don’t believe anyone can really differentiate this from even higher formats. USB output is good but not to the level of AES. There is no I2S. 

After my home trial, I decided to purchase the Grimm MU1 as it fits my needs and my system. It provides such an upgrade to my system, it is a no brainer. I already asked my dealer to send me a new one and hopefully will get it next week. Appreciate all the input received!

 

@ghasley, do you use almpifi alien meshwork as Wi-Fi extender and connect to Ethernet or do you use usb dongle? 

@gents are you a dealer? You sound nice

@metaldetektor thanks for the tip!

@nyev I noticed that when I listen to classical, especially Piano or Violin (any E concerto), the sound is a bit bright in the 4fs mode. I change to original (the NOS mode is called original in Grimm) and the slight tinge of brightness is gone. The NOS mode sounds amazing in these types of music. This may also be due of my system. The quality of recordings also plays a role. So it’s not universally bright with these types of music.
Any acoustic music (think jazz) sounds phenomenal in 4fs mode. In fact, at the risk of sounding hyperbolic, I would say that if Jazz is your primary genre of choice, Grimm with 4fs is outstanding and I cannot imagine anything regardless of price sounding better. 

@ghasley Again thank you sharing in detail. I have Ethernet wiring from my main to the audio room as it doubles as my home theater room. So I am connecting my router directly to Grimm. I may try the USB dongle for wireless. 

@soix Thank you! I will receive mine tomorrow or on Wednesday. I don’t know if I should rub it in, he knew he lost the sale when I informed him that I will not be using his services for home demo or purchase. Hopefully he just had a bad day and will offer better customer experience in future

@ghdprentice Thank you! I do have a router in the room so that’s not an issue. I need to access my NAS and I am thinking of wireless as there is only one Ethernet input.

@lalitk sensible advice. I will enjoy the Grimm/Halo combo for now. I am happy with this setup and sounds awesome!
 

I will keep a short list of DACs for the future. Aqua, Berkeley, Mola Mola, TotalDac based on current Grimm owners and experienced audiophile recommendations. 

@ghasley, i am lucky to have a direct fiber optic outlet in my audio room. I am connecting my router to Intel NUC server and to my Grimm Mu1. I also have local music on Grimm. All Ethernet cables are Sablon 2020. Grimm mu1 is connected to Holo May using Shunyata Omega AES/EBU. Holo May to preamp. All upstream cables from May are Nordost Odin. 

so far everything is working great! One of the best tips you gave was to disable PLL. It got rid of the annoying locking time but also greatly improved SQ. Yesterday I updated the Holo May. After the update everything sounded worse than before. I was not sure what went wrong and started checking everything. I finally realized that the update turned on PLL. I turned it off and everything is back to amazing again. Never thought that PLL was making such a big difference. Not sure why they even have this setting as default. 

I received a lot of help from our members in this process. I can try giving back with information regarding Grimm. I am obtaining the Sablon and Nordost AES cables. I have a Shunyata omega that I borrowed from a friend. So I will post my impressions on the comparison.

I have the Grimm Mu1 and my friend has a Taiko extreme server. He came over to my home and was very impressed by the Grimm. He may borrow the Grimm and we may try comparing the two in his system. Ideally we would also want to try both in my system. But moving the Taiko is not an easy task. If we get the time to accomplish this, I will post my impressions.

@ghasley As I said earlier I don’t want to disparage anyone. I don’t think he deserves a very negative review because of this one interaction. He otherwise has good reviews. Moreover he is not here to share his reasons on why he did it. I achieved my goal of auditioning and purchasing the Grimm Mu1. I am very satisfied with the outcome 

@ghasley I did not name my current dealer as he requested me not to. He is aware of this thread. The Grimm dealer network is small and he is shipping from another region, he does not want to seem like stepping on someone’s shoes.

If anyone is interested in buying the Grimm Mu1, PM me, I can get you in touch with couple of very good dealers. 

@samureyex I appreciate your input. I was just trying to find the norm in these situations rather than decide who is right. I actually now purchased the Grimm Mu1 from another dealer. So all good

Just fyi, there are a good number of dealers who send in a demo to your home for 2 weeks with only return shipping paid by the potential buyer. This will be waived if you end up buying the product. Most are in the west coast or Midwest. If anyone is interested, PM me.

Just an update, I now have the Nordost Odin AES/EBU coming later this week. I already have the Shunyata Omega and Mogame cables. I will also get the Sablon soon. I am trying to get the Jorma cable too. I am unable to get the Ansuz. I know there may be others but these are the ones I am interested in. My goal is to see if there is a significant difference between these cables. If so, how much of a difference and how do they change the sound character. I will post the findings in a separate thread. I am not sure if these cables will sound the same in your system but at the very least you can get a general idea.

I want to add a couple of details. As far as availability and pricing goes, Grimm Mu1 is starting to become more available and they have caught up on the back log. I never paid MSRP for any audio purchase. The Grimm Mu1 had a recent price increase but there are dealers willing to offer it at the previous price. I got a further discount so I think I got a great deal. I will not add any details regarding dealers or price on this thread. I will reply with more details if you PM me.

Thank you @badgerdms, that is exactly what I did.

Thanks for the heads up on Todd the Vinyl Junkie!