Determining current flow to install "audiophile" fuses.

Sorry Geoff.  Not biting.   Actual important things to do.....

" It’s very often pointless to mention mapman "

Well, if one gives up trying, then the enemy wins.

Facts are meaningless when someone thinks they hear something.

czar, hard to argue with that logic.   :^|

" They had clear jackets so you could see the (unshielded) copper right through them. "

No mine do not have clear jackets.

Its probably a safe assumption that most people still do not care about fuse sound or wire direction. Including me for the most part.

Of course some care more. May the force be with them.

Now I must say I have some Monster Cables around still that do have arrows on them indicating which way to hook them up so I obligingly do since they took the time to say so even though I do not know why it matters. I also do that with MIT cables with network boxes that are clearly not the same on both ends.

But if a respected maker claims a directional product but neglects to clearly instruct users about the recommended orientation then that product has little credibility with me at least. You took the time to make a "directional product" but neglected to provide clear instructions on proper setup? Give me a break. I’ll find another vendor that has better attention to details that supposedly matter.

Right my understanding is the reason the Monster wires are directional as indicated is because of the shield implementation.   That's pretty much the only reason that I have read of.   My MIT wires have no indicators and I can't say if it matters or not there.   Fuses are a different story.    Most high end audio fuse makers seem to leave a lot to the end listener's imagination.

Well I guess if one is a theoretical physicist one can propose pretty much anything they want.  After all it's all, you know, theoretical.   Some might even buy into the theory.   Funny how these things work.  

Also so I feel slighted a bit in that I don't expect others won't hear something just because I didn't yet some expect most all will because they and others think they do.  All that despite the fact that even the most knowledgeable EEs on this sight have clearly expressed their views which normally get a lot of traction but cannot convince some that the benefits may not be as predictable as some think.   I guess the 30 day guarantee makes it safe but really how many are going to bother to return something that at worse causes no harm?

just saying.  Too much hype with these fuses in any case IMHO.  

Wow!  Well hot dog those must be some truly brilliant pebbles even if you must say so yourself! 💥

" Mapman will probably buy it, though. "

Personal attack!  Very hypocritical.  I guess its OK when you do it just like anything else.

Someone should toss this guy already.

When smart people seemingly speak before thinking there is often some agenda at play.

Stop being engineers, real scientists would be finding out why there is a direction.

Well Geoff is supposedly a theoretical physicist and gave an explanation until someone comes up with something better.

There is supposedly this thing called math involved that can be used to communicate how theory works to the engineers that will actually make something useful. Like Einstein did to communicate his theories to those who eventually ended up making the bomb. Theoretical physics sounds cool but not an excuse to just make things up and sell them as real or meaningful. I’ll just put my trust in the good EEs current understanding especially having already wasted time trying to hear a difference.

Meanwhile its the engineers that take the best accepted "theories" and actually make things that work. So just take that for what’s it’s worth all. Like Atmasphere said (paraphrasing) "no good engineering without good science to support it".

It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.”
― Mark Twain

The money's the same, whether you earn it or scam it.
-- Bobby Heenan
 

Documented evidence would indicate the only real interest of some here is tooting their own horn no matter what. Not too hard to figure out. Its all out there for the reading. So kudos to those with useful information and with an interest in helping others understand things. It may seem like a waste of time sometimes but will pay off in the end.

Czar,

I think there is a significant amount of truth in your assessment of the media and system in general which accounts for much of the USAs woes these days (ie maybe we’re not as great and perfect as we were taught to think as kids partly due to the dumbing down forces at play everyday) but remember that not everyone has been totally brainwashed yet so the good fights go on everyday in earnest as well as they pretty much have always at least as far back as I remember. The most important conflicts are often not fought with guns and bombs.   the good news is at least we have a system that supports freedom in many ways.  Nothings perfect.

If its a contest between how many useful things I learn about from Almarg as opposed to geoffkait,  guess who wins?

You guessed it.   Perhaps the most one sided landslide victory in human history.  

But that's just my opinion of course....

That Mark Twain knew his stuff.

It's all a joke to some but I suppose everyone loves a good mystery....

I’m a born in the wool Genesis fan from way back in Peter Gabriel days. Gotta respect Phil Collins. A truly talented artist who has always bucked the odds for success. As long as he’s still kicking I am always interested to hear what he might do next.

Things labelled "audiophile" seem to most often be called that to get the attention of audiophiles who are likely the only ones to care enough about whatever it is being pitched for better sound.  

If these products are truly so great, especially for the bargain audiophile price of only $100 or so,   Why don't any others care?

Just pondering out loud.  

"Where is all this angst and hostility coming from? "

Look in the mirror.

But I’m sure its no mystery. Repeating the same thing over and over like a parrot no matter what tends to have that effect on people.

We know Geofkait says all wires are directional and why already 10X over. Enough already.

Your act is getting old and predictable.

How about if someone cares enough at this point to worry about the direction of their fuses just let them try it and live happily ever after whichever way it works out.    That would be a lot more practical.   Or just listen to Geoffkait and be miserable knowing 50% on average of teh stuff in your audio circuits are installed the wrong way.  

Happy listening....

" Apparently no thread is too "old" for you to over post. "

You sound like a parrot on that one already too!!!

Rather how about stop spouting useless nonsense repeatedly here for free, buy some paid advertising and all can live happily ever after.

Its easy to label someone a skeptic if they disagree with something, anything.  

Best to avoid labels but that won't stop people with agendas.

Op seems long gone.  Smart man!

"At the end it is not about what people say."

Says who?  


Oh right,  you.  🙄

Someone try that and let us know if it works.  

Not that it has anything to do with this thread but how does the Maximus work?

Expectation bias expectation bias is no doubt a factor.   I did the audiophile fuse thing recently with a synergistic red fuse in my arc sp 16 recently using a fuse given to me to try.   I thought I heard some difference with that versus stock fuse at first but could not be certain after repeated tries.   Reversing directions did nothing.  I wanted to hear something but did not feel compelled to having been given the fuse.

in any case if there was a difference it was too subtle to be assured of.    As it stands I am not seeing the value clearly.  

My my only suggestion is for each to report their experiences but realize not all will hear same results.   The reports I read including my own experience seems to bear that out.   Be Leary of anyone promising anything or attempting to sell their spin as fact. 

I'm sure anyone selling high profit fuses is all for them.  

Geoff is not going to do anything to substantiate any of his claims except talk and even if he did who would believe him?

Tests are better than words or theory alone when it comes to how things actually sound.

FWIW the stock slo blo fuse that came in my ARC sp16 appears to have been well thought out to start as well. It is quite substantial and unique in its build compared to most common slo blow fuses I have seen over the years.

How much a "good sounding" fuse need to cost is a whole other can of worms. Slo blo or otherwise.  It can cost as much as someone is willing to pay based on it "sounding better"  even if for totally unknown reasons.  

So its not a given that all high end vendors just shove any old fuse in there to start with. Good vendors tend to think everything over pretty carefully.

Another reason to not generalize and say fuse X always sounds better. What one starts with is certainly a factor as always. No mysteries there. A change in one case is not the same as in others.

Also interestingly the fuse is not symmetrical in its build which is obvious to the naked eye (unlike crystal patterns of metal) and reversing that does nothing as well.

" You cannot extrapolate or generalize your negative results to make some grand statement such as, "I tried the fuse and didn’t hear anything, therefore it doesn’t work." "

Well I did try reversing directions and heard nothing so yes I can.

Don’t be scared......

You've done nothing but run your mouth.

" uch!  Very ouch! (One imagines it's not much fun being an outlier.) "

You are not even that.   Just a cheap vendor who likes to run their mouth.

" I have to admit that the differences in how big the influences are of the fuses are big. And yes there are a few situations that it didn’t do as much as other situations. "

Well Bo you earn points in my book for acknowledging that results vary.   Its the only correct position to take with most anything audio since not all appreciate any audio product equally as is evidenced by the variety of gear and approaches out there. 

So if you have customers that trust your recommendations, then more power to them if you make recommendations that retain their trust.

Hey Bo please stay on topic and ease up on the shilling or I may now have to deduct those points you earned earlier.   :^)

I kind of found it amusing, but mostly just lost interest quickly and couldn’t force myself to read the whole thing.

Does that make me a bad person?

I’m sure some will find it fascinating. Everyone loves a good mystery.

It's really more aphilosophical question at this point.  

If one hears it is it real?   And what % is due to s fuse?   

Inquiring minds want to know. 🤑

I think the argument is not so much about being possible or not, more so how much whatever might be reliably discerned about fuse direction to whatever extent it might exist matters.

Some say it does and some say it does not.

My personal opinion is if it does matter its way down on the list of things that I know for a fact matter.  Below things like even the robustness of the contacts/fit of the fuse as Atmasphere has pointed out based on his experience.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.  Including discounting the opinions of others even I suppose.  The question is always how much water does any one opinion carry.

"

Uh, problem is its not his experience,. Its just the old ivory tower academic type thing in action.

"


Look who’s talking!

Atmasphere actually designs and makes highly regarded amplifiers using fuses.

What is your experience exactly that puts you in a position to question his?

Theoretical physics?

That’s fine but the problem is its well, just all theory.   You know, just the old ivory tower academic type thing in action.

You do get points for Chutzpah though.