I've heard the album now about nine times and I wouldn't be prepared to go that far to be honest.
There are three arguably four "classic" songs on this album,it is a very good and reasonably consistant record with a few minor moments and maybe one pointless track.
The production and overall feel are strongly related to Love And Theft from 2001 but at this stage Modern Times lacks for me a distinctive tone or cohesion that brings it all together to be more than the sum of its parts.
If I were to pinpoint one failing despite very well crafted songs they do lack a little on the arrangement front.
It's a fine record that delivers a honest picture of where Dylan is at musically just now and highlights his powers despite the weathering that the years have brought.
I can't say it's a masterpiece but then you shouldn't be able to say that just yet.
Ooops you just did but I'm glad you did that rather than post about your speaker cable.
:-) |
Tfk-yup I am indeed in the UK.
I didn't realise it was a UK only release.
$250 I suppose is expensive but surely decent 2nd hand copies are about? |
I can understand why the "harder and more atmospheric" sounds on TOOM would appeal more than the "quirky and lightweight" sounds on L&T.
Interestingly enough I find the production on TOOM really distracting and actually rather false and gimmicky.
It does work well in places and there are some classic songs on it.
I also find Dylan's voice is all over the place in terms of production and performance-his phrasing I find interferes even with the better songs as if he wasn't really feeling confident on the album.
Lanois production for me is actually something of a disaster especially when I consider Oh Mercy to be something of a masterpiece.
I do concede that the arrangements are more interesting overall if sometimes messy but when it works it works well.
Ultimately I see TOOM as overrated.
Love And Theft(2001) for me production wise is warmer and much more natural sounding.
Dylan sounds more confident despite the further limitations that age has bestowed upon his voice.
:-)
For me it's a far stronger record overall but I realise I'm in the minority with that opinion and that the lighter musical moments may be a hurdle for a lot of listeners.
For my money Dylan did something completely different on this record-it's a fantastic array of funny,fun, thoughtful and subtly powerful songs.
Modern Times features a very similar production to it's predecessor.
It hasn't (so far) for me got the factor X that lit up L&T for me but it could merely be the fact that musically Dylan uses very similar templates and sources.
Lyrically the album is quite different and arguably closer to TOOM in that respect.
It's always good to talk about Bob-thanks. |
Martykl-Love And Theft has very similar music to Modern Times on it.
Dreadhead- I said OM was something of a masterpiece-it was certainly his best album for a long time and it was a reference to Lanois fantastic production job on it.
His Masterpieces per se for me are....
BOTT
BIABH
H61RV
BOB
BS V1-3
BS LIVE66
Just behind those are a series of really good records including Desire ,L&T, Oh Mercy and a few others.
New Morning I think is a fine record but not up with his best. |
Drubin-to be fair JWH and a few of Dylan's early albums should be in the 2nd tier of Dylan's work I posted that list in a hurry-it's a crucially important album arguably one whose legacy is much more important today than it was at the time.
It's not in my list of Dylan favourites but I wouldn't disagree strongly with any argument to have it in there as a "masterpiece"..it's far superior to New Morning imho.
Dredhead the BS vols 1-3 is a definitive album and is constructed almost totally of studio work(there's maybe 3 live versions out of 50 or so tracks)-this collection released in '91 put Dylan's work in a completely new perspective-it showed the power of unreleased songs from '61 to '88 and really delivered a treasure chest of gems.
I'd argue to hell froze over that record put Dylan in a new light and is a masterpiece of a collection.
Last Thoughts On Woody Guthrie,Blind Willie McTell and Series Of Dreams amongst countless others surely prove that.
As for live albums I've been careful about including any but '66 is up there with the greatest live albums ever released-it is a masterpiece imho and is in my list on merit.
The mindset and thought process was different to the studio for sure but it was pure Dylan in essence-challenging, thought provoking and a cultural changer.
Dylan rewrote his own history and Rock's on that tour-this record delivers the evidence.
It is better imho than any of those live albums you listindeed there is a very strong argument none of those records would exist without it. |
Tfkaudio yes it was I bought it on vinyl at the time.
Should be pretty easy to pick up-it's 5 albums worth.
Dreadhead I am really quite familar with New Morning but I will get it another spin sometime soon.
Cheers. |
There's little doubt since TOOM Dylan has came back into vogue critically.
Several things happened Dylan got ill gave everybody a fright he was on his way out and there was a sea shift in musical taste. Country,Blues and roots music (call it folk if you like) has been much more in vogue in the decade that followed, people picked up on Johnny Cash, alt-country et al and re-evaluated the worth of that type of music-in general terms(different generations converged musically)Also last years Scorcese documentary really captured peoples attention and reminded just how powerful Dylan was.
Finally with that in the background Dylan has marketed this album very well with his teaser sessions and masses of very positive reviews.
Obviously I'm a massive Dylan fan but there is an element of "this is the moment" for Bob again.
I can't say it's a masterpiece but it is widely seen as the latest proof that Dylan remains relevant and enjoyable today and I can't disagree with that.
For my money Love And Theft deserved the praise and attention more however that did get released on 9/11 so........... |
One could also be dismissive of so-called Audiophile music-who's going to listen to that in 50 years?
And what about all that crap about cables-sheesh.
And what about manufacturers that keep the badge and produce inferior products and claim the new model is better?
:-)
Instantly forgetable criticisms that have a grain of truth in them...for me at least
Joking aside I really do think actually singing quality is a real hang up for many Audiophiles and indeed that is why they go so often for such perfect female vocalists and cover versions and all that soft jazz and perfectly recorded pap...ouch I'm falling down that hole again.
Dylan isn't for everybody but to be honest Jsonic you ain't adding much to the debate which is about his new album. |
Dreadhead I couldn't disagree more about Modern Times in terms of what it sounds like.
He's using the same templates but the music is closest to Love And Theft with tiny sprinklings of the Blues related stuff of TOOM done in a less "powerful" fashion.
There is no real strong connection to how Dylan used to sound pre-97 anywhere on this record.
Imho the real masterpiece of recent years is Love And Theft and until Modern Times resonates for me with the originality,depth and wit that album does then we need to debate this on a daily basis.
I can think of worse things to do.
:-) |
Jsonic-no worries my friend I wasn't particularly dealing in specifics regards your statement just comparing generalisations.
I've always found a fair bit of common ground with your posts.
I stand by my comment about Dylan's voice and Audiophiles;many of them hate it, full stop.
At least you can relate to the earlier years.
I couldn't disagree more about myself and Dylan as I would be heralding MT as a masterpiece and I certainly wouldn't be so critical of TOOM if I had lost my objectivity regarding him.
Indeed read my first post again.
"It's a fine record that delivers a honest picture of where Dylan is at musically just now and highlights his powers despite the weathering that the years have brought."
The weathering description relates to his voice which is clearly limited now,in the early 90's Dylan was struggling terribly with it.He did however imho find a way to cope with it-there was a massive change in his live performances around '95.
He remained strong for several years but he has had his dips and to be honest this is a battle against decline; it will never be as it was.
I think he does a pretty decent job in that context.I really can understand that the rasping tone and strange phrasing would have people putting off the disc within seconds.
I think Dylan is still massively relevant but it's a shame his voice won't allow you to hear that.
However this is my key point having clarified that background.
There are lots of music threads on Audiogon regarding artists I don't care for at all and unless I think have some kind of context and insight into it then I just ignore them.
If people were discussing the new Diane Krall album where is the value in me turning up and saying it is boring pap?
I'm not even in the zone to discuss it.
I think your reaction is an honest one but your whole post outwith of Dylan seemed a bit of a moan to me.
And really we can't have that on a Dylan thread.
:-)
Best wishes Jsonic,honestly.
|
Just to add to the music debate.
I'm on one mailing list of long term Dylan fans nearly all European.
The reaction to the album has been quite muted (more negative than how I view it).
I think the concensous amongst the Bobcats (for want of a better phrase)is that it contains three excellent songs (NM,WMB#2,AT) and a fair share of ordinary songs.
A lot of then struggle with the Jazz shuffle material (which I don't).
Finally there is a very common conclusion that there is a flatness to the record but there is much debate about how to define that-some think it's the predictability of the music,others the production or finally the arrangements. |
How anybody could make the assumption that Dylan's comments were an indirect attack on Lanois is beyond me.
Why use Lanois again if he hated his sound so much?
Dylan also produced Love And Theft the album before MT; this is not a new approach for Dylan on Modern Times.
It was only a matter of time before this became a "sound quality" Audiophile pissing contest.
:-)
|
Pretty much Dylan's whole output since John Wesley Harding has probably disapointed him to some extent with regards what he was able to capture in the studio.
He hates the studio and nearly always struggles there.
Indeed even Blood On The Tracks was recorded twice.
It's never been his thing....he even hated Sgt. Pepper for being overproduced. |
