Behringer DEQ2496 - worth using in hi-end system?

Ingenious!! Now I just need to get someone to do this for me!

Controlling your Beheringer DEQ2496 from listening position to optimize the sound of your home Stereo System
By I.G and A.R - Rev.0 June 14, 2006
[email protected]
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See complete article and picturs:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81500
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Many audiophiles around the world are integrating the Beheringer DEQ2496 with there home sound system for optimizing the sound by room correction, system sound correction, sound imaging and "on the fly" improvements for far from perfect recordings.
Optimizing the DEQ2496 for room correction, system correction and sound staging should be done from listening position for best results.
Our ear and brain is very good with identifying a relative change in sound and imaging. Moving from our listening position in order to tweak and make a change with the DEQ setting interrupts with our ability for identifying relative sound change and resulting with frustration with our sound optimization process.
We want to keep the DEQ physical location close together with our CD / DVD players and our amplifiers. This enables us to have it connected using short high quality interconnect cables for best sound.

The solution is to have a remote control to our DEQ2496!!!

Two methods of remote control are presented; both were tested and used by us:
1. Separating the DEQ front panel and extending it with a long flat cable (5Meter) - It has a Low WAF (wife acceptance factor) -
2. DIY remote control using 12 Channels IR control Infra Red remote circuit, DC motors, solenoid actuator and Tape Recorder rubber belts - High WAF .
see:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=81500

Dmitrydr...Actually, it is worth the price just for the RTA, even if you do not put it in your signal path. I originally bought it for that purpose, but learned through experience how good it sounds, and how much improvement to the overall system is realized by room correction.

I'll be ordering it soon. But I just don't see any reason to use it as DAC, it worths its price just for its digital abilities.

I've been using mine as a DAC for a couple weeks now. I admit it took over for my Harmon Kardon DVD25, which "supposedly" had decent converters for a relatively inexpensive DVD player. The difference is huge, especially in the high frequencies. The Behringer will be staying right where it is. For the time it takes you may want to give it a try.

[QUOTE=Eldartford]
Dmitrydr...Have you tried it? Refinement is not price.[/QUOTE]

I'll be ordering it soon. But I just don't see any reason to use it as DAC, it worths its price just for its digital abilities.

Hudsonhawk...Yes. The DEQ2496 can walk and chew gum.

How is it as a DAC? Does it simultaneously output from both its analog and digital outputs?

By that I mean: I have Denon universal player as my CD transport (with a Dac-AH doing the redbook decoding). I use the Denon's DACs for DVDa and SACD decoding.

I would be hoping to go from the digital out on my universal player to the Behringer. I'd like to keep using the Dac-Ah for Redbook, but if the Behringer is a good DAC, I'd like to use it for LPCM stuff. But, I can only do that if it outputs from both the analog and digital outputs at the same time (so I could choose between them based on whether I was playing a cd or DVDa disc).

The Behringer would have an added bonus for me as a musician (using it as it was intended, as a mastering tool).

See my long-running thread, How does one get off the merry-go-round?

Enjoying music is what the hobby is about to me. I no longer give a damn about refinement.

In fact, the more refined my system has become, the less I have enjoyed it.

That's quite a statement, Grant. Can you say a little more -- why do you suppose more refinement = less enjoyment? Come to think of it, what does refinement mean to you? It's a term I use frequently, but I wonder if we would all agree as to its meaning.

Bravo Tvad, Eldartford and Warrenh

Could not agree more. I actually use the PEQ from the Behringer (feedback destroyer pro) . It works great. It is even cheaper! I manually set this up and just use it for ultra LF frequency adjustments but there is software that can allow this to be controlled automatically using a PC, mike and a MIDI controller.

Room correction and speaker quality has such a HUGE impact to what I hear that I am not ashamed to say that I am quite satisfied with the non-audiophile DAC's in my Sony mega-changer CD players. (Yes, I know, many audiophiles may laugh that I have professional studio speakers but CD sources that you can probably find in Sears. However, my chained mega changers and software controllers allow me to browse, select and cue music from an electronic menu and, after, all, for me it is about LISTENING to music and not fiddling around with 100's of CD cases to feed a single CD transport!!!)

Who gives a damn about refinement; Blu-Tak and a this PEQ are probably some of my best value for money audio improvments!

If it sounds better and you enjoy the music ...that is what counts!

Good on Tvad, Eldartford and Warrenh for daring to speak out frankly and claim that a cheap PEQ can make significant improvements to mega-dollar systems!

Like I said before, if the unit was 3500.00 many people would think differently.

Ridiculous markups benefit the seller not your ears.

Dmitrydr...Have you tried it? Refinement is not price.

If you insist, RAM will mod your DEQ2496 to the ultimate of refinement, with output through silver wire Swiss audio transformers, for about a grand.

And what's the point of a superb system, if the room screws it all up?

Guys, just think about it, we all care enormously about getting as perfect DAC as possible, it comes to serious numbers... And you want to pass your good analog signal through good-for-the-price but ultimately not refined AD stage, and then again thorough the same kind of DA, which may sound more then acceptable, but deteriorates refinement - and refinement is all what this hobby about.

Goatwuss...Why do you ASSUME that there will be audible "negative effects" which need to be outweighed by room correction? If your system is good enough to worry about this sort of thing the $350 cost of the DEQ2496 and mic will be a trivial expense. Buy one and listen for yourself. No one but you yourself can tell you what you will think of the "transparency". On the other hand, the benefits of room correction are well established.

I, like many audiophiles, have many sources that I use to listen to music. DVD player, CD Player, Record Player, Ipod, PS2, ...

I would like to explore the possibility of using the Behringer for all sources.

For those of you who have just set this up in your preamp's tape loop, how "transparent" is this piece?

In other words - in YOUR opinion, do the gains from room correction outweigh the negative effects of adding this piece to the chain and feeding in analog, and getting analog out.

Thanks
Goatwuss

It does and I might try it, but doing so would completely bypass the Exemplar tubed output stage...and what would be the point? Kind of like bypassing the APL circuitry.

Which is why separate DACs are making sense again, unfortunately.

Hey guys...don't waste a lot of energy avoiding use of the DEQ2496 A/D and D/A. They are good 24 bit devices, and if you keep the signal level up they will handle your 16 bit CD signal very well. One reasonable application of the DEQ2496 is as an "outboard DAC" (using its digital input) which just happens to also do room correction. However, this would limit use of the DEQ2496 to the CDP.

I understand. If the Denon has a digital out, you might want to try that at some point, just to see if it makes a difference.

If I'm not mistaken, it's a digital EQ, so putting in the tape loop means it will have to perform AD and DA conversion. Placing it between transport and DAC avoids those extra conversions.

You might want to try using it between transport and DAC. Actually, I know you can't do that, Grant, so use it between transport and preamp.

Don't forget to order the microphone.

Kenn39...You raise a good point. Being aware of this I have set up low gain power amps, so that my "pre-out" signal level is as high or higher than the CDP output signal level. This is why a TAPE loop, if you have one, is the best place to put any signal processor, BehringerDEQ2496 included.

Great, thank you very much Eldartford!

Drubin...An Optical-to-Coax converter can be found at www.partsexpress.com item 180-961.

However, reading the DEQ2496 manual, I see that the digital output which is on an XLR connector can be switched between the professional format, AES/EBU, and the consumer format S/PDIF. You select the format using the I/O menu of the DEQ2496. It says that you can use an adapter to go from XLR to RCA for the digital output. Nothing is said about how this adapter is wired. I would get a standard balanced XLR to unbalanced RCA and give it a try.

Drubin...A Toslink-to-Coax converter is actually reasonable. After all, there is one such device at the input of every unit that has a Toslink input. Of course it would have to be a powered device. I think I have seen one in a catalog somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment.

The Behringer has two digital outs, one Toslink S/PDIF and the other XLR AES/EBU. If my DAC has only coax S/PDIF in, is there a solution? Can I use an XLR-RCA adapter out of the AES/EBU to a coax S/PDIF cable, or are those two things incompatible? A Toslink to coax adapter seems an unlikely thing.

Beware of using pre-out. I think there is an optimal range for the analog input. Outside of it, the quality of A/D conversion is going to be poor.

Thanks,
I am looking at buying the one for sale on the gon now. I am also thinking of adding a puter to the behringer to my integrated.

Streetdaddy...If your integrated amp has a TAPE loop (TAPE OUT and TAPE IN rca connectors) it would be obvious. If it has PRE OUT and AMP IN connectors (probably connected by jumpers) you could put it there. If all else fails you can put it between your CDP and the amp, but then it is available only when you use the CDP.

Eldartford,
How do i hook it up to my tape loop? Not sure if my Concerto integrated has one, even.

I found the DEQ2496 improves significantly with a dedicated power (I use 20A) or isolation transformer type conditioning (no filtering).
It shows significant differences between various transports: cdp, dvd, pc.

I am only using the digital functions of the DEQ, so I don't know how its DAC performs. I also don't know how the DAC in your Exemplar performs. However, a lot of what you paid for the Exemplar went into providing a nice, tube analog output section after the DAC. If you used the DEQ to provide digital equalization and output an analog signal to your integrated, you'd bypass all that. You probably wouldn't be using most of what makes the Exemplar more than the Denon 2900. Unfortunately, it seems like going with the DEQ may not be very compatible with taking advantage of the Exemplar's strengths.

If you use the digital out, your CDP will have no significant role. If you go the A/D - EQ - D/A route, you CDP will still have a significant role but may be hampered by the conversions.

I think many people want to know how exactly the A/D and D/A conversions degrade the sound. Please share your experience you do give it try.

Streetdaddy...If you want to use the Behringer for all sources (not just CDs) you would put it in the Tape loop of your preamp. When you do this you can switch it in and out of the signal path and decide for yourself if there is any degradation in sonic quality, and if there is, does the room correction done by the Behringer more than make up for it.

If you only listen to CDs, feed the Behringer a digital signal from the CDP. The Behringer D/A are also "well regarded". But only your opinion matters.

Thanks. I have a well regarded exempler 2900. Are the dacs in the behringer comparable? Does the quality of the cd player still have a significant role? I would hate it if i wasted the $$$ on a cd player if it wasn't fully utilized!

Street, Yes you can put it there, but you would be taking your CDP's DACs out of a meaningful role, because the DEQ2496 is a digital equalizer, not an analog equalizer. The DEQ would convert the analog signal from your CDP to a digital signal, perform the equalization operations, and then convert the equalized digital signal back to analog and send it on to your integrated. The critical D-to-A function would be performed by the DEQ, not your CDP.

I am seriously considering getting one of these units. Would i be able to connect it in between my cd player and my integrated amp? I would like to use the dacs in my cd player. My integrated { Rowland Concerto has preamp outs.} Thanks.

As Warnerwh said, the best thing to do is try it and see how you like it. A couple thoughts:

The equalization/room correction feature may be so beneficial that it outweights some loss in ultimate sound quality.

This is an amazing piece of equipment. You can use it a DAC, an ADC, a sound meter, etc.

Given its relatively low price, it is really a fun gear to experiement with.

thanks. Issue is, I don't have any digital domain sources to place this guy inline with, and was wondering if it was worth my while to consider introducing this to my system.

The AKM 4393 dac isn't that bad. An outboard dac for 4-500 dollars will definitely sound better depending on your system of course. The best thing to do is try it and see how you like it. I had actually been quite impressed that the dac in it is as good as it is. My preference though is for my Bel Canto DAC 1.1.

Connection-wise, yes.

Many people consider the A/D conversion being a weak link. The D/A conversion is respectable but no world-beater either. Therefore, it is best to be used in the digital domain, between a transport and a DAC.

You can download the manual from their website to learn more about its capabilities.

Would it be possible to put this unit between your preamp and amplifier in balanced mode? Some people seem to cite the fact that it should only be used in the digital domain, why is that?

Thanks,
-Marc