I agree that the Cremona M is faster and more transparent than the previous version; ? maybe less euphonic. I kind of liked the old one because of its euphony.
But, I chose the Indras over the Sonus Faber's. In Canada, the price difference is not as high as it is in Europe, and the Indras are in another league over the Sonus'.
I agree with Samuel. I too have listened to about the same speakers and they are not the same. |
Thanks for the info. Very helpful.
The story goes like this.
Upon getting the system (which cost a pretty penny), I wanted to upgrade my turntable, since I really listen these to only vinyl. So they really thought that a Brinkmann Balance or Lagrange would be the way to go. However, they would likely equal the cost of my system to date!
So, I looked at other turntables available that would be a bit moree economical for now, but Clearaudios, VPI, and Avids did not really float my boat.
So, I listened to the Indra, which made my cheap turntable sound better. The feeling was the upgrade to the speakers would offer a higher upgrade in sound than an in-between turntable solution. The plan being to gradually upgrade the turntable next year.
And, given that vinyl is really enjoying a renaissance, superior turntable designs will likely re-emerge at perhapos a lower price than today (maybe wishful thinking). I am also a vinyl newbie so I will take a bit of time before I get a final table.
What I wanted to know is simply if the Indras a re vastly superior to the Cremona M.
Thanks,
Bobby |
Thanks Mtdking.
I did not expect an answer such as that! I will take it into account. I will demo the Indra's at home compared to the Sonus Faber's. If it is merely a question of sonic presentation, I will probably keep the Sonus'.
Bobby |
Thanks for the heads up. The dealer is going to come to my house and demo the Indras so I can A B the cremona M with it.
I`ll let you guys know how it went.
Bob |
I guess what t will come down to is which speaker is least fussy about room placement.. |
I agree with Hulskof.
I initially auditioned the previous Cremona floorstanders and was blown over by their warmth and engaging personality. I had compared them to a Verity Audio Fidelio and there was no contest. I preferred them even to the higher models of JM labs. They were "not boring".
I ended up with the new Cremona M's and they were definitely moer neutral, less "rumbly"...Maybe even more precise.
I went from a Harmon Kardon solid state receiver to a Shindo all tube setup and they became very seductive... |
I have auditioned the Avalon Indras finally.
Here are my thoughts.
Firstly , I think that Sonus Faber may be a little generous with their sensitivity. The 87 db Indra feel louder than the Sonus faber by a healthy margin.
The cremona M is a great speaker;especially the beautiful midrange. It's bass, as always could be better but is more than adequate. It is coherent . It is slightly rolled off and pleasant. While listening, you feel the performance and do not appear to be too concerned with minor details.
The Avalon Indra feels like a veil is lifted off the Sonus Faber! Coherent, holographic, great bass extension. Sweet midrange as well; less "soft" than the Sonus Faber's. I would say that both are very good with personal preferences taking precedence over which is "better".
The musical experience is "more" It is not boring to listen too and yet is relaxing as well.
This is truly a marvelous speaker. For what it is worth, I listened to a Wilson Watt/Puppy 8 on a far more expensive system (Shindo and Brinkmann Balance) and my humble system with these speakers were more enjoyable and engaging. I think these speakers are "better" than the Wilsons.
I have heard Pro Ac's D80...not in the same league. I have also heard JM labs Electra 1027, 1037, and Altos. Dynaudio as well.
I have not heard anything in this league. WOW. I am sold. I am going to exchange my Cremona's for the Indras!
Bobby |
Further update.
My wife, who over the last year has become annoyed with my researching of equipment, keeps saying "stupid sound system stuff".
Upon listening to the Indras, she said, they sound much better than the Sonus Faber's. Also, she said, "What, the Italians are lyng about audio equipment too?" (She is Italian from the same region as Sonus Fabe, and she was referring to the Brunello di Montalcino controversy).
So there you have it.
Bobby |
I totally agree with you. In the product information pamphlet, Sonus recommends a high quality amplifier that does not necessarily mean more power. However, these are not the first Italian speakers I have heard that like power. I had listened to Diapason's Diamante and they too were not nearly as romantic without solid state amplification behind them.
However, given my unexpected penchant for tubes, the Sonus were the wrong match...I had initially demoed them with Ayre electronics, but something about those amplifiers left me a bit "nervous" or jittery after a listening session.
It is all really subjective, but I can only highly recommend an audition with the Indras.
Bob |
Not to mention that they are tonally excellent and are easy to drive and all of your components to shine though.
I also listened to the Isis and it is a larger version of the Indra (or vice-versa). Listening to each one in the appropriate room size, I could not tell the difference between the two.
I will say this, however, they did not sound nearly as magical with CD (what does) versus vinyl.
I listened to the Isis on a shindo/VTL setup with a I believe the top of the line Naim CD player. Very nice CD sound, but my 500$ turntable with a decent LP sounds much better and really exploits the strengths of the Indras.
All in all a very special and very heavy product.
As they say in Italian, complementi! |
I am not one for analyzing things in great detail verbally. I basically walked into this business trusting what I like or not.
I approach my wine drinking the same way...I have long ago stopped talking about notes of vanilla, cherry and spice, and come to love and appreciate a well made and "unfake" wine (there are lots of those out there, but that is a whole other discussion).
My turntable is actually the first turntable I have bought, an extremely humble Pro-Ject expression II for 500$.
I will never forget the first time I hooked it up to my previous system and played the same song on vinyl and CD (on an equally humble Harmon Kardon CD player). Only a deaf person could not tell that the old vinyl copy was clearly superior. At first, it sounded "weird" since I was used to digital sound for years, and that was because it sounded like real instruments, more detailed, more dynamics, etc...
Curious to learn a bit more, I even took my turntable to the dealer, and compared it to a 5000$ clearaudio setup. Yes the clearaudio was a bit better , but price is price, and I was surprised that the difference was not far more pronounced.
When I returned to the CD player in that awesome setup, I guess all the shortcomings of the digital medium were revealed .
I actually wondered if an extremely detailed and transparent system may actually be a wrong choice for CD/digital...maybe if digital is your primary source, you would want a euphonic system (like Sonus Faber Cremona M's with solid state). Just a thougt.
So there you have it. I do not think it is a matter of a 30-40000$ CD player being "beaten" by a humble 500$ record player. I think it is a matter of the vinyl medium, with decent play back, to be a "better" and truer medium than CD.
By the way, those that say bass is better on CD vs vinyl...I think the bass on CD sounds a bit artificial. I saw Metallica live, and even that bass did not sound like what is on CD's... The vinyl gets it better and more accurately, to my ears anyway.
So, after these experiences, I basically am not using my CD player and with at least 3 vinyl stores in my area supplying all the music I need...Well, there you have it. |
Dear Karel,
I just saw your system! Wow...as a newbie, I am wondering how you can listen to CD!
Bob |
Karel
This is fun...a kindred spirit. I do pick my wines however, according to Robert Parker...if he likes it, I will not! I do not like molasses and overdone wines...exactly what a lot of CD recordings are like.
I noticed that your speakers have ceramic drivers. The Avalon Indras have them too. What do you think is the difference between ceramic drivers and other materials (like paper, carbon, metal, etc.). |
I think the Wilsons sound really nice. However, the Indras really allow your components to come through; just make sure hour system is not too "etchy" or too "hi-fi"; you may get listening fatigue quickly. |
Follow up. I went with the Indras first. Changed the amp from the Montrachet to the Shindo CC 80 mono blocks (huge difference). I then began the source changes. Upgraded to a large Clearaudio Magnum. Nice subtle change. However, it was when the graham Phantom was put in that it really sang. An ebony TR cartridge followed, and a nice subtle change happened. Finally, I changed the turntable to the Brinkmann Bardo (massive effect). System stable now for 4 years and no desire to change. |
