Hey, thanks Brian! That was nice! will look around. brgs, marcelo |
I ordered a new REF 2 just before the new year, matter of fact, I didn´t know (neither my local shop) that the REF 3 was available, so originally I ordered a REF 2 and only early this week, when the shipment was suppoused to leave the States, we found out of the new REF 3. It´s on its way now, expected arrival by saturday next week toghether with a Krell 700 cx...I cannot wait!
Now, I have a question: I received the specs by fax yesterday from AR (incredible service, one call and 2 minutes later, 3 pages on my machine) and can see that there are several differences on the specs when compared to the REF 2. Specifically, the ones that rings me a bell are gain (lower than ref 2), higher impedance output than the ref 2. Can anyone enlighten me with what does these differences mean? I can post the specs here if needed, yesterday were not listed on the ARC Data Base.
thanks!
Brgds, Marcelo
Spain |
Hi Jeff, thanks for the clarification. Currently, I have my LS25MK2 mated to a Krell FPB300c. The new Ref 3 will be mated with the 700cx, so I guess it will be no trouble matching those 2? The specs for the REF3 are:
freq. response: 0.2 Hz to 200 Khz
Gain: 11.6 balanced (18db on ref2), 5.6 db SE (12bd on ref2)
impedance: 600 ohm balanced (400 ohm on ref 2)
max input: 20 v rms max (balanced) (14v on ref 2)
output: 2v rms into 200k ohm (2 v into 100k ohm on ref2)
noise: 2.7 uV (20 uV on ref 2)
tubes: 4x 6H30P (plus -1 each- 6L6GC and 6H30P in power supply)
Does anybody sees what these changes suggests?
Thanks, brgds, Marcelo |
Hi Guido, mi knowledge is also very very limited, here I am, talking about impedances and gains while I have not really a clue how this 2 work toghether...
Anyway, I will be using the REF3 with a FPB700cx that I ordered to arrive toghether, and I can tell you that the Krell has an impedance input of 100 Kohms and the input sensitivity is almost 4v. If we consider that the AR pulls out 4v when having a 2 v input (this considering the 6 db gain on SE of the REF3 and considering, IF I´M NOT MISTAKEN that the 6 db gain means doubling the voltage), there should not be any problems...I guess...what a mess...
Using your formula of minimum 1:10 ratio, do I understand correctly that with a 600ohm output (REF3) and a 100kohm input (Krell) we have something like 1/160?
brgds,marcelo |
Expected delivery at my place is late this week (maybe as late as friday or even saturday) but this will be confirmed to me tomorrow or tuesday.
Word is that both units should be in Spain by now....
I can't wait, I´ve been going around in circles thinking of the Ref 2 for a long time (well, not that long, I´ve only had the LS25MK2 for 1 year...), as well as upgrading the Krell 300c.
brgd, marcelo |
Hard to know at this stage, I doubt many (if any) have had the chance to listen to either one.
However, I´ve had the KCT at home and was sent back, in my system, I liked a lot better the AR.
Anyhow, 35k$ would probably result in 50k$ in Europe...out of my league. I´d rather spend the 50k in a pair of Statements...
brgds, marcelo |
arrghhhh....just learned today that the Ref3 AND the Krell were not shipped yet from the factory...this means minimum another week or so. I have not the details as for why the delay, but could imagine neither ARC nor Krell had a 240v unit ready to go...
Oh well, I´ll concentrate finding a new cart to upgrade my Frog Gold MKII...any ideas?
brgds, marcelo |
Hi all, I´ve just unpacked my REF 3, finally home!
Right out of the box, dead cold, hand to hand with the LS25MKII, it was a revelation in terms of sheer bass response without loosing the top end.
After 2 hours continuos operation, suddenly it changed and sounded like the scene was grouped in the middle (no, I was not in mono mode ;-) ) and harsher than the 25...one hour later (now we are at the 3rd hour) and it came back stronger than ever.
A friend of mine who knows well my setup drove to my house with his `reference´ recordings and was amazed at the clear sound, but most of all, dynamics and bass response.
Too early to say anything else, need what...100 hours? (no mention about burn in time as with the CD3).
Anyway, it is different and certainly an improvement to the 25 (sure, what else..). One of my worries about the lower gain (down from 9 db to 6 db SE on the phono section) is gone. There is enough there to drive the Krell 700cx with the Colibri at the other end (0.3 mV) at very loud levels. Back to the listening session now...bye
Marcelo
Spain |
Hi all, Hi Guido! I missed this post, sorry!
Well, I've lived with the REF3 now for a while, and can only confirm what I initially sensed, it is a great linestage, detailed, open and rich.
If I were to find a weak point, it would only be the input gain (yes, I know I mentioned it before, but it didn´t stopped bugging me). This is not related to its performance though, more likely to my own tastes as user. I don´t like to increase the volume well above 50 to have some significant SPL out of the Martin Logans. So, I decided that I needed to use high output phono preamp and also add a high output DAC in between my CDP and the Ref3. Well, I bought a phono pre with enough output to drive the power amps (Aesthetix Rhea) if it only had volume control.
Gain is an incredible 75 dbs!
And, for the CDP I bought at first a Krell Stealth DAC, but this one didn´t really had the fire, so today arrived a Theta Probasic IIIa that a fellow A´goner sold to me last sunday and it did the trick. Now I really feel like the Ref3 sings!
What else can I say? That I think it will be hard for me to get a better rig for my system. I´m really really pleased with it.
brgds, Marcelo |
Guido, I have not heard about the xchange tubes! What´s all about? 6550 seems a step backwards from the 6H30P? WHo's doing/offering the upgrade? AR? I'm checking right away.
Also, you mention that you had to raise the volume to 7. You mean 70 right? That´s about the max. I could do before the Theta arrived. Now I think 60 would be the max. SPL I could handle through the 700cx and the MLs.
brgds, marcelo |
Has OneObGin confirmed that this is factory made? I checked ARC and the ARCDB (better source than ARC itself) and there is no mention about it.
BTW, the 6550C & 6550EH are Power Triodes, used by ARC on their power amps, the 6H30 & 6922 are preamp ("small signal" as per ARC) tubes...I wonder if we are talking nonsense here...
I´ll check with Leonard and hear what's going on.
brgds and thanks
Marcelo |
Ok, I talked to ARC just now. All is clear to me and confirms what Oneobgin said all along.
1) Tube swapping> only the one 6L6GC is swapped in favour of a 6550C (Svetlana made).
Not the 6H30 on the output section but the rectifier on the power supply.
2) The addition of 4 bypass caps is also part of this "rolling update".
The tube swapping can be done by ourselves provided we get the right tube brand (Svetlana).
I don't know how much of an improvement this may result, but spending a few $ on a tube is not a lot to find out ourselves.
brgds, marcelo |
btw, the right tube to use, according to ARC itself, is the Winged "C" (SED) 6550 C. Same as the ones they currently use.
brg,ds marcelo |
Hi Doc!
yes, you can go back to the 6L6GC even after installing the bypass caps.
These mods are not related to each other. Matter of fact, the caps are the ones that provides some improvement that can be measured but probably not heard (or barely).
The (reportedly) audible or really sonic improvement is the tube xchange.
The ByCaps are installed facing the 4 big yellow caps on the opposite board. If it were already installed, it could be easily seen from outside.
Now, where exactly are mounted...is only for ARC to know and for us others to wonder... ;-)
I won't do the upgrade, at least for a while.
Maybe (just maybe) I'll try the tube, but not before I need new 6h30's (520 hours in abt 6 months..).
I've decided to enjoy what I have for what I bought it. Or else, the race is endless...and time is not.
brgds marcelo |
