I have the Grand Reference speaker cable and interconects. All I have to say is that Kharma is in a different league. So much more detail, air, soundstge etc... |
I heard the expensive Kharma speaker cables a few times with big Lamm amps and Lamm pre driving Kharma Ceramiques - very open, dynamic & detailed sound. |
Me and my audiophile friend had the grand reference cables and didn't care for them over the course of a few evenings of listening they sounded dark and slow we were comparing to the Jena labs Valkyre and Twin 15 which had a much more musical sound to them. But the flip side of this comparison was when we had the same system with different speakers(kharma's) the jena's didn't sound as good as the grand reference- how ever on other speakers the Jena's seemed to shine weird audiophile stuff going on here! ~Tim |
if you like grand ref. cables ,you will love kharma enigma cables,they are much better. |
Listened in another dealer showroom who said he thought they were the best he had ever heard. I installed a pair of Audio Tekne in the system and I wish I had a camera to take a picture of his expression. Bettered the Kharma in every way for 25% of the price. |
If it is true that the Audio Tekne sold by Hi Fi Farm bettered the Kharma, then according to the laws of logic, a cable which bettered the Audio Tekne would also be superior to the Kharma.
Well, I admit that I know of such a cable, it is the Gran Finale I am importing from Germany. A customer who owned the Audio Tekne, bought the Gran Finale, since he found it superior to the Audio Tekne. |
Care to shoot it out at CES? Blind comparison by attendees? |
Thank you Tekunda that was helpful-eyeroll-, by the way who is the only person selling these cables in this country? I can't seem to remember?? it may seem prudent to mention that, to those who are unsure, if the name comes to mind I will post it. Best wishes ~Tim |
if we use the laws of logic as mr .tekunda.
one of my freind in france who tried fadel art gold line and gran finale,prefered fadel art gold line and said gold line is much better.and i tried gold line and kharma enigma ,and i think kharma enigma is better.but hifi farms customers(what he said)choice is audio tekne cable againts kharma enigma.and mr tekunda s customer choice is grand finale againts audio tekne.
conclusion; you can not make your desicions with the laws of logic in this hobbies(or in this bussiness).you can do just one thing ,you can try.because every product ,every system on different acoustics situations have differents sonic signature, and we can find the right cable,if we try it, not with our logics or with the advertising of the dealer in audiogon. |
After 20+ years in the hobby, I have pretty much concluded that what cabling is best will in most instances be a function of the amp and speakers involved. case in point, I have had excellent luck with Nordost Valhalla when used between a tubed amp and full range electrostatic speakers. More recently with different speakers, another wire was better; however, the "better" wire was clearly inferior on the electrostats. This is not to suggest that some products are not generally superior to the pack but rather to say that in a particular instance one superior product may work better as an interface than another. For this reason, I would always suggest that one try wire products in their own system and not rely entirely on results in other systems. |
Hi Fi farm, you bet I will! Come see me and my cables at the CES and we will do a blind shoot-out. |
Tireguy, what is wrong with my post? If another dealer(Hi Fi Farm)can tell that the cables he sells bettered a competitor's product, without drawing any criticism from your side, but if I do the same and draw your immediate cynism ,something must be wrong with my post. Please enlighten me here, so I can learn from my mistakes. -eyeroll- |
|
Hey, somebody bring out the peter meter, its time we got this thing settled once and for all.
Between Gran Finale and Grand Reference there is sure plenty of room for a Grand Enigma and I ain't talking about cables either.
|
Tekunda- Have you ever heard the Kharma Grand Reference? If you haven't(more then likely by the sound of your post) your statement has NO relevance here in this thread. On the flip side of this coin Hifi Farm Has heard the cables and made a comment based on what he HAS heard and not assumed. Good day. |
Gee, I'll even host the A-B at the CES of these speaker cables and will be in room 1302 of the Alexis Park using a Rockport table, CTC Blowtorch preamp, CTC/Parasound JC-1 amps driving Rockport speakers.....I really want to hear how much better the Audio Tekne and Grand Finale are than the speaker wire I build......It would be nice as well if Tekunda brought the Lindemann CD player as I am curious how much better it is than the DDR digital system that was designed in 1994.....I'll supply the beer.....
Bob Crump
TG Audio/CTC Builders/DDR Mfg |
Sounds like a good system to do the comparison with. I agree to be there. Let's confirm a time and wind it up with a Vegas night. |
I haven't heard the Rockport Miro speakers yet, but Andy Payor says they are better than the Syzygy model he and I have been using for a decade as our reference.....Just received my JC-1 production amps ten days ago and they are already amazing and quite a bit better than the prototypes I have had the past six months....The DDR digital system is a completely rebuilt Entec Number Cruncher and G&D Transforms UTP-1 transport and the Rockport table is my personal Capella model....We are the first door off the Lobby to the left, room 1302, and look forward to doing the comparisons any night you are free....Now if we can just keep Curl from turning it all the way up and keep the police out of there we will have some fun.... |
Cable wars.....this is all very entertaining....i agree with Fred....cable is very system dependant. in the last 6 months i have had the HMS Grande Finale, the Siltech Compass Lake, and the Kharma Enigma (just finished) in my system (among other cables) to compare with my Valhalla interconnect and my Transparent Opus mm speaker cable.
my only comments would be that in my system i enjoy what i have and that listening is the only answer......and that listening tastes can dramitically differ from person to person so "which is best?" can be at best a real subjective question. |
Hey Mike! I agree with Fred too as he sold off that Valhalla speaker wire and is using some cheap ass speaker wire made in Texas by real Texans on his new Acapella Campaniles......I stopped worrying about what was "best" years ago and just build wires to please myself and my tastes.....Geoff Kait has heard that cheap ass Texas wire compared with the Kharma at Charlie Houston's place BTW... |
I don't find any of the posts above inappropriate, but do understand that we have seen these guys go at it before, so there may be a greater context to some of the observations above. I find it fun to watch myself.
Mikelavigne, I don't believe opinion is as relative as you imply, and you seem to have had some good experience, so, with the opinion disclaimer still in place :-) what are your opinions on the cables you mentioned? I would be interested because not many people can audition in a string the cables you have.
Well, Tekunda, you have your wish...and even have directions so you won't get lost. Rumble in da Jungle!! |
This will be a blast. We will be with Sanibel Sound in 1308.Our system will include Piega C-40 , associated with some amazing electrnics and a ton of accessories. We can compare on this system as well if everyone agrees. Completely blind non partial under less than sober conditions after hours. |
Asa- Great post!!!!! :) We are all clowns hiding behind our keyboards- well at least I am. |
We'll see which one plays the loudest, but we will have over a horsepower total with the new mono amps.....Like last year there will be a small party of all the audio journalists from the paper and emags.....Stephaen Harrel of TAS wanted Curl to turn up the volume a bit and John turned it all the way up and we measured an average 104db at the doorway with 120db peaks least year and then the police arrived and Kal Rubinson and Robert Deutsch decided to have a yoyo contest which Rod Morris (webmaster AA) Documented in his show report.....Then I can't tell you how much trouble we all got into, but Eveana Manley showed up about then.....Curl said it was like being on stage with the wall of sound in the 70's when he worked for the Grateful Dead......Yep, this year's 6th annual Stereophile Memorial Beer and Pizza bash will be a blast as it always is.... |
Since I am the junior here in this club of cable dealers, I will let the seniors decide date and place for the shoot-out. I can be found in one of the KR-Audio rooms (I share a room with Kr-Audio and their Kronzilla SET monoblocks), so please contact me there.
I am sure I cannot hide, my German accent will give me away in a second. |
It may be possible to q up the same cd in both rooms and achieve a record for pissing off your neighbors as they try listening to the opening of the Moonlight Sonata. |
This sounds like a wonderful idea, perhaps you can invite a number of impartial inmates who frequent the show and will post theirm findings afterward. I must say that I have a certain fondness for the KR tubes eventhough none of my present equipment utilizes their tubes. |
