Ahhh--Problem solved. Adding a REL sub-bass unit...


I'm wondering how many audiophiles have given up on loudspeakers preamturely, or have gone down the rabbit hole of cable swapping to "fix" an issue with their speakers.  

I grew up hating subwoofers and home theatre.  I still haven't come around fully to home theatre.  I've warmed up though.  I've had my own issues with otherwise great loudspeakers, including a pair of Klipsch Forte IIIs.  I was very frustrated as I'm feeding them from a respected tube integrated, I've tried them with a 300B amp, and I've toiled over positioning.  

The issue that I was having was the mids and highs were dominating in my room--despite the size of the woofer and passive radiator. Some recordings were just too bright.  Sometimes I felt the speaker, however "alive" and dynamic was not imaging well, needed soundstage help, and so on.  

I hate to say the REL T9i I threw in the mix today is a panacea because there's always stuff to tweak.  Yet I have experienced this before with a Sumiko subwoofer.  Adding one to the mix and dialing it in so that it's barely audible has brought everything into focus.  Everything is more relaxed and energetic at the same time.  

I'd say that the REL is a room tuning device above all.  I have a larger room (I think it's 15 wide, 24 long and 10 high--in feet).   I'm not sure how much I'd have to spend or what different choices would solve this otherwise.  From a guy that used to reject subwoofers out of hand (my bias came from the 90s home theatre craze) I think that they might be necessary in the lion's share of systems with the lion's share of speakers.  To say, "you don't need a sub" with speakers might be true depending on your room, but I also think in most situations you are missing out on what they can do for so many criteria that are not necessarily in keeping with adding bass--e.g. soundstage, focus, imagine, fullness, taming treble, etc.). 

Finally, I really wish that I could try some other brands as many audiogon members recommended so many respectable names.  I ultimately went with REL because of its philosophy, my similar experience with a Sumiko sub (within the family of REL or somehow related), and the high frequency input connections. 
128x128jbhiller

Showing 1 response by prof

I come from a place of having hated subwoofers as well.

For as long as I can remember, whenever I expressed that I didn't like systems with subwoofers, the reply would be "you just haven't heard it done properly.  My set up integrates the sub properly."   Then I hear the set up and instantly hear a subwoofer.

But I had to downsize from some big floor standing speakers (Thiel 3.7s) to smaller ones (Thiel 2.7s) and I wanted to see if I could bring back some of the scale of the large speakers by trying subwoofers.

I bought a pair of JL Audio 110e subw - highly raved over even by TAS.(I have some severe restrictions in the sub I can choose - they have to fit under a projection screen and the JL subs were about the only ones small enough to do so.  Fortunately they are super high quality subs).

As they can be used from the line level from a speaker (like REL) I tried variations of that approach.  I heard some of the things you get with adding a sub - an expanded sound, more 3D imaging etc.   But the main thing I just couldn't get around was that they changed the TONE of my system.  I'm super sensitive to tone/timbre - it has to be right in order for me to want to sit and listen to a system, and my speakers/amp combo have been carefully selected to get just the tonality I find to be believable and compelling.  If I alter that, I'm playing with the most important feature of my system.

Even selecting a fairly low crossover point (again, running my speakers full range), the sound would darken overall to the degree I was not pleased.

I also bought an expensive JL audio CR-1 crossover which I've yet to try, so I'd be instead actually splitting the signal between the mains and the sub - how you are "supposed" to do subwoofers by the lights of JL audio and countless denizens of subwoofer forums.

I'll see how that goes.  I haven't gotten around to it as it's such a freaking time consuming pain in the butt.   But if I can't integrate the sub without preserving the tone/timbre of my system, I'll have to abandon the idea.