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why do we argue?

I suppose it's human nature?

Not everyone can get along,at least all of the time.

Squablles occur in the best of families,sometimes over big issues, sometimes over small ones.

So why should the audio "family" be any different?

Some forums have gone to great pains to cleanse their sites and free them from confrontations between audiophiles who can't see eye to eye, or perhaps we should say, ear to ear.

But where's the harm in all that squabbling? Really?

If someone finds it offensive, then why continue to read it, like a moth drawn to the flame,if you think it's going to harm you, don't enter.

No one is making you.

Then if you feel you have to post your objections to objectional comments(who made you the boss?)then you are not the solution ,you're just adding to the problem.

Like bringing gasoline to put out the fire.

You're going to be on one side or the other,or perhaps you are the "let's kiss and make up type" "can't we all be friends?"audiophile who has only everyone's best wishes at heart.

There's always a "mom" to come between two fighting brothers isn't there,and you know she can't take sides,calling a truce is her job.

But until the real issues have been addressed, the argument is never over.

It's always there under the surface,just waiting to boil over given half the chance.Power cords one day, fuses the next, and demagging lp's? Please!

It usually starts in audio forums when some chump posts that a piece of something that cost more than it should, made an improvement that someone who wasn't there to hear it says it didn't.

Get the gist?

I did it, I heard it, I was there,who are you to tell me I didn't hear it, and how dare you call me dillusional?That's the response to the first response from the folks who know it just can't be real.

Surely if I am half a man, I'll have to make some sort of reply.And reply to the reply and on and on again and again.

I'll have to try to proove that I heard what I heard, but you need scientific proof.

Obviously I can't provide any, I am a chump, not a scientist, I bought the snake oil didn't I?

So on and on it goes and intensifies until enough is enough and two or more members of the family are banished from the fold.

The community all the better for it, or so it tells itself.

But is it?

If everything in this hobby is scrutinized to the point that if there isn't a scientific white paper to back up the claims, how much of what we take for granted today would be lost to the audio community at large?

Zip cord,stock giveaway cords of all srtipe would be all that we would have.There'd be no equipment stands or various footers, no isolation devices of the electrical and mechanical persuasion,no spikes,no fancy metals,in short there would be no aftermarket anything.

It would be a 100% snake free world,a totalitarian utopia for the less than feeble minded audiophiles that there are so many of. Those foolish folks who thrive on fairy dust need to be saved from their own foolish and wasteful ways.

At least that's the way I've seen it from my perspective.

I know it's too late to save me.Salvation passed me by decades ago.
lacee
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,850 posts
 
Well, I guess if it boils down to two choices when someone says something that does not sound right:

1) ignore it
2) argue the point

I suppose if we all chose to not argue ever, the world would be a much different place? Better or worse? Hard to say. But I tend to think people do what they are wired to do for a reason that may not always be immediately apparent except perhaps to some higher power, so I guess I will just chose to use the term debate rather than argument and call it a day.
lacee OP
811 posts
 
I read the thread Bryon.

But I think the pendulum is beginning to swing back to promoting better sound rather than trashing it.

Pos feedback had a nice article which ties in with this thread and they published my reply to Why I am a Subjectivist in their letters column.

Spending money on things which some of us use to improve our systems has mostly been looked at with scorn and scepticism by more and more "audiophiles"( I use the term loosely).

That some are now starting to respond to these scatthing remarks and riddicule is long overdue.

Music is the reason for getting involved in this hobby, the equipment is a means to enjoy the music.I am also a muscian.

I always felt that it was the wise thing to do to use whatever funds were available to increase the level of performance of the system and in turn increase the enjoyment level.

I never felt it was about bragging rights,I was spending money on items that worked for my ears.
If they work for other ears that's great, but the only way to know is if you go out and try the things that are being described.

Everyone's perception of an audio breakthrough are different.
I've stated before,my take on an improvemnt in my system may not be noticeable to others or in other systems.

But what I do know is that it does make my system sound better to my ears and I trust them, because I listen to the music with my ears and my ears only.

But then doesn't everyone?

So,it also seems that finances are another reason people get angry and like to argue.

Over priced gear, out of the reach of normal wage earners,is a reason many have turned their back on audio and condemn those who do make high end purchases.

Look at the flack the mags get if they rave about any gear that costs in the five figure range or higher.
That angers some folks so much that they cancel their subscriptions.

Yet there are always plenty of reviews of new low price gear that performs far better than most of the "vintage" gear they've spent the same money on.
All they need to do is read the "specs" and they would see that most modern speakers have better specs than old ones.
Amazing, the spec people should be the ones who own all new gear, yet they mostly don't.

That over priced, rip off high end gear doesn't sit very long on the Gon pages does it?
It's good stuff again if bought at pawn shop prices.

Something tells me those magazine reviews of high end gear can come in handy afterall.

So to all the folks who cancel their subscriptions because of reviews of high priced gear, thanks.

There'll be fewer folks in the know when those nice mono blocks come up for sale used.
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,850 posts
 
"If they work for other ears that's great, but the only way to know is if you go out and try the things that are being described."

That is true and I doubt anyone would disagree.

But, the hard part is the decision making process. Which things to try and in what order of priority? That is where things get tricky! Especially since not the same things work in every case. Making an educated decision requires facts. Once one has the needed facts, a decision can be made. Individual findings will vary. Arguments may ensue. The facts will generally almost always tend to come out better over time though assuming the stakeholders in the argument STICK TO THE FACTS. Its all good unless things turn personal for whatever reason. The best way to avoid that is to always STICK TO THE FACTS and make clear what is known or not and to what degree of certainty. A lot of "facts" that result in arguments tend to occur in shades of grey. What is true in one case may not be true in the next. YEt, is was true at least once most likely. But no one in their right mind will bank on something just because someone they do not know or know if they can trust says so. Yoo know you cannot trust anyone who insists that a single occurence of something is enough to prove it exists (I will not name names....).
bryoncunningham
890 posts
 
Lacee and Mapman - Good thoughts, and I thank you for sharing them. The link in my last post was intended to make a simple point, a point I've made on this thread and others: One of the most common causes of arguments is bullying.

bc
nonoise's avatar
nonoise
10,566 posts
 
Can it be that this thread prompted this article?
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue62/subjectivist.htm

See, we do contribute, even by arguing.

All the best,
Nonoise
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