Audio Research Ref 5 preamp

While I was at the dealers my intentions being directed at listening to the Ref5 and purchasing but I did get to hear the new New Jeff Rowland Criterion pre, besides the stunning eye candy look it seemed to offer more sonic difference.

I also own the MBL 6010D pre. which is a really nice pre but I still prefer the Ref3 over all mainly due to the 3D images, stage presence, and just over all more realistic to me.

Samuel if you read my thread carefully you will read that I said I enjoyed reading your review and you do not see me arguing regarding your findings, these are your opinions which are okay. I have not demoed in my own system so I can't provide as of yet a comparison but will eventually and was sharing my initial findings which obviously by reading your threads did not like. You seem to be on some type of power trip along with sarcasm or something, for what ever reason you seem to have the need to say "I have six years of psych schooling and 15 years of field experience" doesn't impress me at all and then you say "See you at the med window ... :o)" Samuel now I know why we are always short of them, you are the guy always in line.

Guys I want you to know that no where did I suggest I did not like the Ref5 but just providing info. of my recent experience.

Lets put it this way I'm looking for a new pre right now, the Ref3 is going for how much even though I own one still but have to sell it or trade-in and the Ref5 being aprox. a 8K upgrade, is the difference worth it.

Hi Dev,
I think you should be able to get some discount on the new Ref5. And that the final trade up figure amounting to additional $4-5K against a Ref3 is realistically fairer.

Dev,

No power trip, just my surprised response to being psychologically classified by "Type" on an audio chat forum. That was a first. This has absolutely nothing to do with your disagreement over a subjective opinion of mine.

My last comment was no dig against you. Just trying to bring some light into your characterizations of my motives for sharing what you believe is an overly positive opinion. I did try to highlight my intention for shared levity with a :o). Maybe you missed that. "See you at the med window" meant I was already there....

I have posted a total of one, that's right, one review here in 10 years of fairly regular participation on these and other forums. I did not turn my reply into a formal review nor did I bother to put it in any "review" section to get more views. I simply _responded_ to someone I know who was asking for first hand comparative impressions--something I rarely if ever do. No one yet had, so I obliged. Silly me.

So far, responses include accusations of collusion, your classification of me as the "type" that would be swayed by ego justifications and finally unoear with the economical breakdown of pricing and cost differences being a determining factor. On the one hand unoear is right and so are you, there are a great many factors that play into one persons opinion...but none of these are over-riding factors in most anyone's impressions.

For me, regardless of cost the upgrade was substantial or I would NEVER have bothered to respond and share my opinion. No, I did not pay $8k for the upgrade so feel free to take that into account.

Do I think the upgrade is worth $8k? There are so many factors that play into that equation no one can make that call except the buyer. Based on the large sum of money involved an evaluation in your own home is of course---mandatory.

The Ref 3 is a great pre-amp and had I not heard the 5 I would still be enjoying the 3. By any measure, in _my system_ the differences between the two were obvious and repeatable in the areas I mentioned. These were not audiophile tweaky differences, they were demonstrable. And no, my shared impressions were not grossly altered by ego, insider or psychological variables. I was simply answering Baby Bear's question in a straightforward way.

Obviously and in all cases, ymmv.

Hi Bvdiman, really like your set ups and enjoy reading your threads, only wish you were close enough to be able come and listen, no one around me has such and I'm sure sounds marvelous.

Regarding the Ref3 and Ref5, please if you or anyone can do so send me a personal message because I would be more than pleased to intertain such, I would still want to hear one within my set-up to see if it justifies even that amount though.

Samual I just want to let you know I think you have a marvelous system also and enjoy reading your thoughts but when others like my self provide info. you shouldn't take it so personally as I was not addressing you directly but for what ever the reason it went that way but hopefully finished and we can move on.

Dev,
Since you prefer the Ref 3 to the Mbl 6010D, why not sell the latter (for a
lot more than the former) and get a Ref 5? I've actually been considering the MBL for quite some time; it's lack of a mono switch is distressing to me. I had a
disappointing experience with the Ref 3 which I attribute to the usual problem of dealing with the impedances of 2 amps (I have a bi-amped system) that ARC
has always had. Even though I'm in the 'safe zone' of about 33K (according to
Ohm's Law), there is a reason that ARC amps all have very high input impedances....150K-300K. I know this is getting somewhat off topic, but I
wonder if you can tell me the sonic differences between the Ref 3 and 6010D? Or, perhaps e-mail me privately. Thanks.