Berning ZH270 vs 845 SET amp

There is one thought I would like to add to this discussion and it is the primary reason I own the zh270. What is your objective? When I first got into this hobby over 20 years ago it was to improve my system so that classical music and accoustical music in general sounded more like what I hear at a live performance. This has lead me down numerous dead ends and some temporary satisfaction but like most audiophiles there never seems to be a final place of "I've arrived"

The point I am trying to make is that the Berning is that rare product that has the foundation to get one to that place, poor recordings aside. I have heard it first hand, not in my system but it is capable of reproducing music as you might hear it live. So in my very strong opinion the Berning is a rare product in that respect. No it doesn't sugar coat, it may be brutally honest as some have suggested but it is nothing less than anything it will be matched with in my experience. I find it one of the few products I have come across that is just intrinsically right and this becomes more apparent the longer I own it and the more systems I have heard it in. It is a very elegant efficient design with few if any peers with the level of absolute performance it is capable of along with the built in reliability. It is evenhanded across the frequency spectrum. I have not heard nor has anyone that has listened to this amp commented on an aggressive upper midrange. This is not characteristic of the amp although I have no doubt that Peter and his listening group heard this or perceived this based on other issues. This is the cavaet, the other components the most important being cabling and software in my experience. I have found this amp to work very well with a host of different speakers from Legacy, Montana, Sonus Faber, Quads, Merlin and most memorably with Verity Parsifals. In all cases the amp performed extremely well. You can't get a clear idea of what to really expect until you listen. At the end of the day it may prove that the Berning is not for you but you really can't take anyone's word for this. The excitement that many feel concerning this amp is real and valid for them although it certainly isn't for everyone. What audio product is or ever was? We all have different goals and prioriites.

PS Everyone on this thread should hear Vettrone's new amps. Congragulations Steve, I have heard many fine things about those amps, sure would love to hear your system!

Thanks Wil,

You and all here have an open invitation to come by and listen. These amps have fulfilled my highest expectations and then some. The thing I am most amazed with is the way the new amps with about four times the power of the 270s, still have the finesse of the 270s on delicate passages.
I could go on and on but this thread is about the ZH270.

Steve

I owned a ZH270 for about 3 years. I thought it to be a tremendous amp for the money - second hand. It probably is the most flexible amp I've come across; having a switchable 2 input with volume pot allows you to use it as an integrated amp. This is how I used it initially.

The first think I discovered is that the light weight chasis has serious issues with vibrations. You really need some kind of vibration control to allow this amp to perform. This reduced the noise floor considerable. I was using the Symposium line of vibration control: Ultra platform with Rollerblocks.

Tube dampers on the smaller tubes (not the large output tubes) tightened up the focus of the sound. Herbies tube dampers were the way I went. Very effective for the cost.

The power cord was the next tweak, and this was not trivial. My journey ended with the Harmonix Studiomaster X-DC Wattgates. Do not skimp here.

Then I put an Emotive Poeta in front of the Berning and discovered the beauty of a preamp. Although I cannot recommend the Emotive Audio Poeta at all. The bass was terrible. I switched to the Lamm L1 preamp, and this changed everything for the better. You really need to put a preamp in front of the ZH.

Berning definately has a cult following. I think the ZH is a very special piece in Audio. It is a very tweakable component with miles to go if you haven't started tweaking yet. I would say out of the box, it only delivers half of what it's capable of if you begin to tweak.

I thought I would pass this conversation along that I had the other day with a guy from Berning Company(not David). I am not using his name to protect the innocent. He made the comment, that for me to like the Berning amp I would have to like the sound of live music not HI fI. I thought that was interesting... I think I like live music!!??? I know a good Hifi experience can be satisfing, but I would hope I would like the sound of music the way its "suppose to be."
I will admit, I am not sure that the sound of a SET is like live music..but still, it is an enjoyable experience. I just thought it was and interesting comment and deserved some thought.
Mike

SET amps take a special speaker and as you say has its limitations. Certainly not for me. Give me push/pull with either KT90 or 6550 tube. Speaker comes first as priority, amp second. I buy an amp that works with my speaker, not the other way around.