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PRIMA LUNA owners, what power tube are you using?

To all Prima Luna owners, specifically those with a DiaLogue One integrated amp (although owners of the new Premium amps and the ProLogue series are more than welcome to chime in with opinions and feedback), which power tube are you currently using? Which others have you tried in the same amp, and what made you prefer the ones you ended up going with? And, of course, please specify what speakers you are using the amp with.

I own a DiaLogue One myself. Happy owner for close to 4 years now. It comes standard with EL-34's, and it's, in fact, designed for that specific tube. But Prima Luna amps are a tube-roller's delight, and the manufacturers encourage trying other types.

Personally, and after experimenting with the Gold Lion KT-88's and Tung Sol KT-120's, I ended up going full circle and back to where I started: the stock EL-34 tubes. These are labeled as "Prima Luna", but are actually made by Shuguang in China and, supposedly, only the best rated ones end up being used for the Prima Luna amps.

My system consist of the DiaLogue One, Sonus Faber Toy Towers, and Oppo 95 for CD's, SACD's and digital files (mostly hi-res and FLAC files sourced from an external drive), Pro-Ject RPM 5.1 SE with a Dynavector 10X5 for analog, and Nordost cables all around (Brahma PC, Heimdall and Red Dawn LS interconnects, etc).

My journey could basically be described like this: I started with EL-34's, loved the sweetness, transparency and midrange magic but needed a little more grip on the low-end (and also detected a hint of harshness in the upper highs from time to time), so I switched to the re-issued Gold Lion KT-88's. The Prima Luna auto-bias feature took care of the rest. I LOVED that combination (and loved the way the Gold Lions LOOK, as inconsequential as that sounds), but reliability was an issue. One exploded while in use, and the rest would loose their sparkle and life in less than a year, with moderate to low use on the amp. At $200+ per quad for tubes that don't even last a year, things get expensive really quickly, so I needed an alternative.

I then tried the KT-120's that everybody was raving about and that were actually cheaper than the Gold Lions. Originally, they were not my cup of tea. Too aggressive and bright on the one hand, but not that much different than the Gold Lions when it came to added bass grip and control. I actually gave them a second chance, burned them in for at least 200 extra hours and they definitely got better (less harsh on the top, rounder in the mids, but, again, with no extra "grip" gained on the bottom). Still, the magic was just not there and my amp was never designed with that tube in mind anyway, so why even bother?

I then went back to the stock EL-34's that I still had sitting in the closet. These were not as "sweet" and "magical" as I originally remembered them, ironically, offering bass aplenty (albeit looser, slightly sloppier bass, a quality that for some reason I tend to like on most material since it seems to allow the music to feel more tangible, less sterile and artificial), and an incredibly more open, extended and detailed soundstage, which definitely got "wider" and more STABLE when compared to the KT-120's. With the emphasis being on the mids, there's a lot of details to be gained that were perhaps a little obscured by the more linear characteristics of the KT-88's and KT-120's. Notes in the upper-lows are now considerably more clear and I'm simply hearing a ton more music in the bass and low end. Yes, the KT-120's were sturdier and allowed my Sonus Faber Toy Towers to go a little lower, no question, but at the expense of detail and finesse, I believe. This translates into a significantly more "crystalline" presentation, with the well-known musicality and ripeness of the EL-34 in place, and one that I am finding myself preferring. It all works wonders with jazz and classical, particularly with strings, but rock albums actually sound more vibrant as well. Certain passages tend to break up a little bit, but oddly enough this only happens with very few instances of highly distorted guitars and/or very, very complex passages on extreme metal albums (a genre I also love). Overall, though, I think the EL-34's are back and staying, at least for now. Next experiment: the Gold Lion KT-77's. Anybody have any experience with them?

Would love to hear about your own experiences.
beyondarkness
orpheus10
8,668 posts
 
I use Tung-Sol EL34B, and I'm quite satisfied. Since I've had them for a long time now, that's a testament to their longevity.
schubert
7,386 posts
 
EL 34 is the God of Glass .
mikirob
955 posts
 
To the Op, thanks for asking this question as well as your well written description of your experience with the Primaluna Dialogue One. The tubes I have used the most and have championed is the Russian NOS Reflecktor 6n3ce, 6L6 tube. I first heard about them in a blog by Jeff day who did a tube shoot-out for his Leben CS600. This tube beat, according to Day (a pastreviewer for 6 moons, currently Positive Feedback) all comers in his system.

My brother who also owns a Leben CS600, decided to try them; his speakers are Harbeth HL5. We had our own tube shoot-out party with a half dozen friends. This tube is inexpensive ($65 a quad) and is a little short and ugly like me; but, boy could they play music, solid across the board. I think we created a mini-run on these tubes from Jim McShane, who had a good stock, now mostly out. They are hard to come by.

I have rolled many tubes in and out of my Dialogue One. My least favorite tubes were Shuguang and Ruby KT66s that I liked very much in my Cary V12. They were lifeless and dull in the Primaluna. Oh, forgot to mention that my speakers at various times have been Infinity Prelude Compositions (a vastly underrated speaker 96db with built in 12 inch sub driven by 300 watt internal amp), Tekton Lore, Tekton 4.5, on loan from brother, the Harbeth HL5, Vandersteen 2ce, 1C. I also recently bought the Tekton M-Lore and sold the 4.5.

It's important to note that, like you, I concur with your KT120 comments. I've heard good things about Tungsol newish coke bottle EL34s and plan to give them a go very soon. In EL34s, I've really liked the SED Winged C. To keep this short I will say I generally like the EL34 sound/tone for the reasons you already stated. My room is really good, 16x14, 9 foot ceiling with peak to approx 12 feet. Wall to wall on most recordings, natural height and deep layered soundstage if it is in the recording. Jazz, Classical, Rock, none has been problem.

Associated equipment generally:

Silnote Interconnect
MIT Digital to Eastern Electric DAC with Black Treasure 12au7
PS Statement Speaker Cable as well as Kimber 8tc or Goertz AG1 Silver
Sony DVP S9000ES as transport
BPT Power Conditioner

I installed NOS Bugle Boy 12au7 and Sylvania 5751Black 3M. Other tube sets sound good but these tubes are best for me.
learsfool
1,215 posts
 
I use a Dialogue2. I replaced the stock KT88s with some EL34s that I am much happier with. I will say, though, that I agree the stock tubes are not nearly as bad as some say. In fact, I had to replace my stock 12AU7s recently, and I went with a more familiar brand which I am very sorry to say is not as good. I will order the stock ones next time.
schubert
7,386 posts
 
Mikirob, I used to use Sylvania 3m 5751's, a glorious tube, wish I still had some !
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