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Thiel - Inventors and Tinkerers All

I just got back from Spring Break amid the horse farms of Northern Kentucky of all places. While there I took a tour of the Thiel speaker plant. I was struck by several things.

First was the warmth and friendliness of all the people there. Thank you, Sherry, for taking time out of your busy schedule to escort me and my family around. We were treated as honored guests, rather than just some guy who owns a few of their speakers. I especially enjoyed the listening seesion at the end. And seeing, if not hearing, the prototypes of some cool new speakers. (Room acoustics hadn't been dialed in just yet.)

Next was the extreme attention to detail and craftsmanship. It was easy to see why they cost what they do.

Finally, there was the pragamtic approach to increasing productivity and quality. If they can't find a way to buy a solution they need, they invent it. Like the machine that measured, cut, and stripped the braided wire for the crossovers. The "Eva Saver" they called it. After the employee whose hands they rescued from carpal tunnel syndrome.

I'd love to hear from others' experiences with plant tours. A sort of busman's holiday for audiophiles. :o)
kinsekd
unsound
7,311 posts
 
Zaikesman, I'm not surprised to see that after further discussion we seem to be agreeing more and more and disagreeing less and less. I agree with you that Thiels lower priced speakers seem to lack a bit in bass weight and are quite good in transient bass for their "price range". How ever I think the opposite is true for their upper end speakers. Perhaps you can understand why (though for secondary reasons) I think their lower priced speakers could be designed for closer wall proximity. As for the "looking down perspective", I too have expereienced this. Having moved my speakers into 4 different rooms and using a variety of gear, I can confidently say that this a room and associated gear phenomon. In your case I'm quite sure that your VTL's are NOT the problem. May I humbly suggest some ceiling room treatment? I too think a tri-way is intriguing, but, was embarassed to mention what I thought would be such an engineering challange. Maybe MCS1's and Thiels subwoofers might be the ticket? As always thanks for sharing your appreciated and respected thoughts.
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
Thanks for the tip - now that I have been in a more properly-sized listening room since last summer, I can sit farther away and bring the speakers out a bit more, both of which have ameliorated the 'listening-down' sensation I used to get in the relatively cramped apartment. I have considered ceiling treatment anyway, but am not much motivated, since the sound is good and the system's in the living room. Plus, I'm now using a reclining listening chair, which I've become convinced - after always shunning the things before - is a universal necessity for audio applications (I've got the leather and wood mission-style type, not overly heinous-looking, and the arms securely accomodate remotes). Life could be worse...
akaddict
51 posts
 
Zaikesman and Unsound:

I thought it was just me....I've had that "looking down" feeling in 3 different rooms (in 2 houses) on 2 2's.

Now that you mention it though I don't have it as much in my current room (vaulted ceiling to 16'), as I did before in 8' and 7.5' typical sheetrock rooms. I've often stood up behind my listening chair feeling that I was in the balcony of the concert hall looking down at the orchestra pit. Quite interesting on the right recording, as it seems to add depth to the orchestra.

Wasn't a problem on Sting (Summner's, New Day) or Steely Dan (Two Against Nature), but on the more natural recordings like Chesky and Reference Recordings it was.

Anyway it has frequently seemed the big, deep 3-D image was unnaturally close to the floor. And as I mentioned, I don't get it like I used to in this high-ceiling room.
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
Unfortunately but unavoidably, the first-order crossover and physical driver layout on the 2.2's dictate that listening from a standing position (or even from a chair which places your ears higher than the tweeter axis) will cause a rather pronounced midrange suckout to appear around the uppper crossover region, which is what "seems to add depth to the orchestra", even apart from the soundstage's seeming height in relation to your apparent vantage point. This non-uniform vertical dispersion of Thiels (especially the non-coaxial models - but also many other brands and designs, to be fair) is what motivated my above thoughts on vertically-symmetrical driver layouts, which avoid this effect, evening-out the in-room power response while maintaining neutral on-axis frequency response. This theoretical benefit is one of the main reasons for me to wanting to audition JT's latest coaxial design, and for me to muse about the possibility of him extending this design philosophy throughout the full frequency range in some future models.
stevecham
3,340 posts
 
Listening to Peter Gabriel's latest album UP on Thiel 6s right now powered by a Krell 400cx. The extremely deep bass is very quick, deep and punchy and very defined. It is simple: you have to power these speakers correctly. They need current, it's as simple as that. Jim is VERY clear about this in his literature and dealers are careful to point this out to prospective customers.

It's not Thiel's fault, but instead a design choice that works.
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